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  • Struggling with bitterness

    I'm not even sure there's any advice to be had here, just kinda wanted to vent.
    Three years ago, I finally got out of a decade long relationship. She was all kinds of abusive, but for the purposes of this post, the important thing was our complete lack of a sex life. I tried everything, but, ultimately, the more comfortable she felt in the relationship, the less frequently she wanted sex, and the more rude and hurtful she would be about turning me down. After I left, I sort of fell into a rebound relationship with a woman I didn't have a lot in common with. Still, I was starving for affection and was willing to put up with just about anything if it meant I could be intimate with someone, anyone, again. Then it started again. "All you care about is sex!" As our lives got more entangled, and it became harder to break up with her, her interest in making love, especially the stuff that didn't directly give her physical pleasure, waned. Eventually, I snapped. I realized that physical affection is the most important thing to me in a relationship, and I wasn't getting any for weeks at a time (she would only hug me if I initiated, would pull away from kisses, ect). I broke up with her.

    I just started getting back out there, and I'm having a really hard time trusting again. Every time a woman wants to take it slow, it feels like a red flag. Every time they express interest, it feels like a trap. Just last night, I picked a girl up, and she decided, out of nowhere, to tell me that she doesn't have sex on the first date. Intellectually, I understand that that's her right and also pretty reasonable, but all I could think about was all the random, pointless rules about when we could and couldn't have sex that my ex's had. "No sex after I've eaten, or before I've eaten, or when I'm hungry, or tired, or feeling sweaty, or I've just taken a shower, or we have anything else to do in the next 5 hours, ect." I completely lost interest in her right then and there.

    Ultimately, I'm having a hard time believing, on a deep gut level, that any of the women that I date are actually attracted to me. I know it's crazy. As part of my efforts to get my last two relationships to be more sexual, I've put a lot of work into myself, and I have it from a couple of gay friends I trust that I'm attractive. Rather, this nasty, hurt little voice in the back of my head keeps telling me that women just naturally hate sex (with me anyway), and only do it to lure me in to a relationship. I've tried going for a random hookup, trying to convince myself that there are women out there who would want me, but I've had absolutely no luck, and the failure isn't doing my self esteem any favors.

  • #2
    A decade is a long time with your ex.

    You've said that "physical affection is the most important thing to you in a relationship." That's a huge red flag. Women don't like men who only want nothing but sex. You need to focus on other parts of the relationship with a woman aside from your sole focus on physical intimacy. Sex should not be your ultimate goal with a woman otherwise she will never be attracted to you no matter what.

    Work on being a man for a woman when sex is NOT involved and after that, you will become more attractive to them. Until then, don't be surprised by constant rejections.
    "If you bungle raising your children, whatever else you do well in life doesn't matter very much."

    Comment


    • #3
      Couple of things:
      I said physical affection was my most important thing, not sex. I don't think that there's anything wrong with expressing love primarily through physical touch, and I get really frustrated when my attempts to get a hug from my long term partner are greeted with "keep it in your pants, you sex maniac!" Not all physical affection is about sex.

      My experience with "you're only interested in sex", is that the women who say it to me are really upset that I want sex at all. If I want to spend 6 hours with a woman, watching a movie, going to dinner, chatting about our lives, and then going back to my place and having sex, sex isn't all I want. I want all those other things too, but I've never been accused of "only wanting to see movies."

      I've tried the whole "don't focus on sex and she'll want to have sex with you" thing, and it didn't work. That was just code for "put more work into a relationship with someone who isn't interested in giving you what you need." This would be terrible advice for any other part of a relationship, but I hear it all the time about sex. No one ever says "Sure he forgot about your birthday, but maybe you're to hung up on birthdays. Pretend it doesn't bother you, and he's sure to remember the next one!"

      Also, even if all I wanted was sex, what's wrong with that exactly? What is it about male sexual desire that women find such a turn off? My original post was about my gut feeling that women secretly hate sex (at least with me) and only do it to get a relationship, and the response that I get is that "women don't like men who only want nothing but sex". Is sex not worth wanting in and of itself? My whole point in the original post was that I can't shake the feeling that the women in my life aren't trying to maintain a balance between the sexual and nonsexual parts of the relationship. Instead, they seem to be trying to eliminate sex entirely, but feel they can't just come out and say that because they know I'll leave. I know it's not true of all women, but it sure feels that way, and cries of "you're to interested in sex" don't do much to make me feel differently.

      Comment


      • #4
        grumpyelf, You need to find a woman who thinks exactly the way you do and wants physical intimacy as her top priority and the end goal for the day, week, month, relationship, etc. In the past, you were mismatched so the answer is to find someone who is compatible to you in the physical intimacy dept. Since this is always your aim, she should have the exact aim as well.

        Women want more than just movies, dinner and chats. They want to observe and sense integrity, character, empathy and how you will treat her outside of appearing like a salivating dog eager for sex and / or physical touch. It's the package deal in a man; not just sex.

        Keep in mind, whenever you are only fixated on a physical relationship, you are perceived as horny and someone to avoid by many women. Keep that in mind. Therefore, it is best to find a woman who is just like you and then you will be happy.

        Try dating websites near your home and whittle down your search. Make sure you let them know what is important to you. She is out there for you. Don't give up. You will find someone compatible to your desires if you persevere.
        "If you bungle raising your children, whatever else you do well in life doesn't matter very much."

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by chanelle View Post
          In the past, you were mismatched so the answer is to find someone who is compatible to you in the physical intimacy dept.
          True.

          Do a Google search and read up on the '5 Love Languages'. It's a theory that outlines the different ways that we show love. If you have a different language to your partner then it can cause problems, which is what you've been experiencing by the sounds of it.

          Seems obvious that your language is Physical Touch. Mine too, so I understand where you are coming from. I think Chanelle might have misread you somewhat into thinking that you're only interested in sex, which is not the same as generally being physical with your partner.

          Anyway, the bottom line is that you need to find someone you are more compatible with. Don't be put off by women who won't bang on the first date, as this is pretty common, and important if they are in search of a meaningful relationship.

          If you just want to shag around for a bit, try using Tinder. Make it clear that you're just looking for some fun, so you're not misleading anyone. You'll be surprised how many women are also just looking for casual sex on there.



          Just because someone's by your side, it doesn't mean they're on your side.

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          • #6
            grumpyelf and whatshappeningreg , Needs to stop thinking that women are just conquests. Sure, physical part is important but he's coming off as focusing on his end goal with a woman whether it's during or at the end of a date, a short time in a relationship or hurrying it along so he can get what he desires whereas many women are not in that mindset at such an eager, fast pace. Whoa, slow down cowboy! It's an instant turn-off and many women do indeed look upon a horny guy with great disdain as if they're something wrong with him mentally. Don't be perceived as a nutcase. Sure, go to dating websites and whittle down your search there so you can find an equally "jump-in-the-sack quickly" type of woman. There are plenty out there. However, keep in mind, many women prefer to establish a good read of character and personality first before proceeding any further in any relationship or even a friendship. It takes time to figure out if a particular man (in this case) is someone she wishes to spend time with whether short or long term. Just don't come off as off, strange and weird because you will alienate women quickly if you do.
            "If you bungle raising your children, whatever else you do well in life doesn't matter very much."

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by whatshappeningreg View Post
              If you just want to shag around for a bit, try using Tinder. Make it clear that you're just looking for some fun, so you're not misleading anyone. You'll be surprised how many women are also just looking for casual sex on there.
              Yeah, that's my current strategy. However, I live in a rural-ish area, so my choices are limited. Once I eliminate all the women who make it a point to say that they're not looking for sex, there's something like 3 women left. Those women are so swamped with interest that the odds are pretty bad. Maybe it's different in other areas, but around here, if a woman expresses interest in sex, she can have her pick of every single man in the county (and half the married ones). I'm not a bad looking guy, and I don't think I'm a bad choice as a lover, but I'm competing with men 15 years my junior, who look like they're carved out of wood.

              Also, I would like to point out that I don't think of women as conquests. All I really want right now is one, reasonably nice, woman who enjoys having sex with me. Not as some kind of ego trip, but because I crave intimacy and pleasure. It's frustrating how many woman believe that makes me a "nutcase".

              I'm surrounded by women who are all saying "trust me, once I get to know you, and we've been dating for a while, and we've entangled our lives in such a way that it'll be painful and scary for you to leave, I'll be super into having sex with you, and never decide to stop having sex entirely for no reason." I'm sure that at least a few of them mean it. I'm also sure that, of those, a few would actually follow through with it. I'm just not sure how to sort them out from the ones who are using sex as a trap to pull me into a sexless relationship. It's not like any of my past mistakes were up front about hating sex, at least not until the potential breakup had gotten messy enough that they felt safe not putting in the effort anymore.

              Comment


              • #8
                I have two theories;

                I think this may have a lot to do with the age of the women you've dated or date.
                If they are over the age of 35, for a majority of them, their sexual peak has been and gone. Sure, the 'new relationship smell' kicks that interest and desire up a few notches for a while, but it doesn't last.

                The other thing I have to bring up, (with no offense implied) is perhaps you're just not a good lover !
                Maybe the things you 'think' you're doing right, are less than a turn-on to the women you're fucking.

                Maybe your need for physical touch DOES come across as someone who is too handsy and overly eager.

                Who cares if you're good looking ?? Take it from a woman who knows....the effort stops being put in when the physical and sexual attraction is gone.
                It's a 2 way street in keeping that desire fresh and alive.
                The definition of insanity: doing the same thing over and over again, and expecting a different result.

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                • #9
                  Seems you just need to give yourself time. You're hopping around from one woman to another without giving yourself time to decompress. I think you're so muddled up you can't see left from right or up from down. You're grasping at straws and making bad decisions at the expense of your integrity and sense of self. Why settle for one night stands and hook ups when it wasn't what you wanted in the first place? You're lost and you've lost yourself. Pull yourself together, man. Set your bar higher and stop dwelling in the past.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    pistol:
                    My only real note is that I'm doing the best I can. Maybe I'm a bad lover, the only thing I can really do about that is solicit honest feedback from the women that I'm having sex with. I've been very clear in the past that my goal was to be a good partner, and that I desperately wanted to know if I was doing something wrong. The consistent message that I've gotten has been, "its not you, I'm just not in the mood." After a certain point, if that was the problem, it ceases to be my fault. I can't read minds.

                    As for the part where I may be coming across as "handsy and overly eager", I suppose that's possible. If it is tho, then I'm not sure what's to be done about it. I'm being as circumspect as I know how to be, and it doesn't seem to be enough. One piece of feedback I did get in my last relationship was that I was "pushing to hard." However, "pushing to hard" consisted of me trying to start some foreplay, roughly once a week. I feel like I was being told to pretend that my needs were being met, and my partner would magically start wanting to meet them. This, again, seems like bad relationship advice in general. A partner who's reaction to noticing that I'm feeling frustrated and lonely is to ask me to hid it better doesn't strike me as much of a partner.

                    Rose Mosse:
                    I don't feel like I'm "hopping from one woman to another". I've been with 2 women in the last 15 years. Did I rush into that second relationship? Maybe, but my problem is a difficulty trusting again and general loneliness, neither of which are going to get better if I spend a long period "decompressing." I'm generally a "get right back on the horse" kinda guy.

                    If I end up having a one night stand, what exactly makes that "settling"? My ultimate goal is a stable relationship with a loving, physically affectionate, partner, but that doesn't mean I can't enjoy sex with someone else along the way. Unlike most of the women I've met, I don't feel that sex diminishes me, even meaningless sex with a stranger.

                    There's a fine line between dwelling on the past and learning from your mistakes. My point was, and continues to be, that I don't want to end up trapped in another sexless relationship. I'd love to "set my bar higher." I'd love to be able to say, "you don't seem to value affection and physical pleasure, and have a frustratingly negative view of sexuality in general, so you're not the woman for me." The problem is, setting that bar that high doesn't seem to leave me with anyone left to date.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by grumpyelf View Post
                      pistol:
                      My only real note is that I'm doing the best I can. Maybe I'm a bad lover, the only thing I can really do about that is solicit honest feedback from the women that I'm having sex with. I've been very clear in the past that my goal was to be a good partner, and that I desperately wanted to know if I was doing something wrong.

                      There's a fine line between dwelling on the past and learning from your mistakes. My point was, and continues to be, that I don't want to end up trapped in another sexless relationship. I'd love to "set my bar higher." I'd love to be able to say, "you don't seem to value affection and physical pleasure, and have a frustratingly negative view of sexuality in general, so you're not the woman for me." The problem is, setting that bar that high doesn't seem to leave me with anyone left to date.
                      It took me 5 years to leave my husband of 14 years. One of the things I FINALLY had the courage to tell him, was that through our entire relationship, he was a bad lover. If a married woman keeps that to herself for as long as I did (and I too thrive on physical touch and intimacy) do you honestly think that any woman (who wasn't your wife) who has said "It's not you, I'm just not in the mood" was actually telling you the truth ? It's not fair, but women think they're saving a guys' ego by putting the blame on themselves.....it's what we do.

                      What you need to find is a woman who is ALL about the truth (and wouldn't think twice to not waste her time with someone she was sexually frustrated by) ....someone like YOU, who wouldn't hesitate to tell a woman what you said above.

                      It might take a while, but she's out there.....I know a few women who are EXACTLY like that, so they DO exist.

                      Good Luck

                      The definition of insanity: doing the same thing over and over again, and expecting a different result.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by grumpyelf View Post
                        There's a fine line between dwelling on the past and learning from your mistakes. My point was, and continues to be, that I don't want to end up trapped in another sexless relationship. I'd love to "set my bar higher." I'd love to be able to say, "you don't seem to value affection and physical pleasure, and have a frustratingly negative view of sexuality in general, so you're not the woman for me." The problem is, setting that bar that high doesn't seem to leave me with anyone left to date.
                        Excuses. If you're a get back in the saddle type of guy stop complaining so much and simply do it. Really. You're going to want to work on your approach because there are different types of women and the wrong type of woman will be attracted to you and the right type will keep on walking. Make up your mind what matters more to you: a loving relationship that takes time on the physical side or a snap crackle pop type of orgasmic relationship from the get go with no enduring emotional or mental connection. I think you want to have your cake and eat it too.....and then you realize that what you're eating isn't cake at all. Rome wasn't built in a day so pick what you really want and work on the rest.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I find it odd that you complain about lack of physical intimacy and spend 6 hrs with a woman at the movies, dinner etc and crack the shits when there is no sex at the end of the night. Yet you then said it's not just about sex but touching , hugging , kissing etc. Didn't you do that at the movies and dinner? Sounds to me that your approach is, you've earned sex.

                          And so what if the girl last night said she doesn't do sex on the first night? You've written her off already?
                          At what point did she say that? You say out of the blue but something must have alerted her to say it. Had you kissed or touched her at that point? Perhaps it's based on her previous dates that expected it.

                          You had 2 relationships were the sex dwindled. Perhaps it dwindled because the relationship did.
                          Were you oblivious to things not going well in the relationship and only noticed the obvious symptom which was a decline in sex?
                          Perhaps you didn't make for a good partner in general to those two women and many women are only interested in sex when all else is going smoothly.

                          Maybe you need to think about what it is that happened in both relationships a long time before the complete disappearance of sex.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Maggiemay4791 View Post
                            I find it odd that you complain about lack of physical intimacy and spend 6 hrs with a woman at the movies, dinner etc and crack the shits when there is no sex at the end of the night. Yet you then said it's not just about sex but touching , hugging , kissing etc. Didn't you do that at the movies and dinner? Sounds to me that your approach is, you've earned sex.
                            I think you've missed my point here. I was responding to someone saying that I'm only interested in sex. I was pointing out that I have plenty of things that I would want to do with my potential partner that have nothing to do with sex. I'm not saying that dinner and a movie entitle me to sex, just that, yes, my ideal date does involve it. I don't think that that makes me a bad person.

                            I have to ask, do you agree with me on that point? Is it ok for me to want sex? Not demand it, not pressure anyone for it, just to want it. Because my previous two partners that I've been complaining about certainly didn't think so. In case I have not been entirely clear, I'm not trying to pressure anyone into anything they don't want to do, and I'm being as circumspect as I know how to be about my desires. However, just like no one owes me sex, I don't owe anyone a relationship. It's my right to make lack of sex a deal breaker. I just wish more women would be up front about their lack of desire, so as to save us both time and heartbreak.

                            And yes, as with pistol's point that I may have been a bad lover, I fully acknowledge that I may have been screwing up the relationships in some other way that decreased their desire for sex. Once again, all I can say is that I asked, and wasn't given any useful feedback on that point. If it was something I was doing that was causing their lack of desire, and they weren't honest or motivated enough to help me do better, that is functionally indistinguishable from them just hating sex for no reason and lying about it to trap me.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by grumpyelf View Post

                              I think you've missed my point here. I was responding to someone saying that I'm only interested in sex. I was pointing out that I have plenty of things that I would want to do with my potential partner that have nothing to do with sex. I'm not saying that dinner and a movie entitle me to sex, just that, yes, my ideal date does involve it. I don't think that that makes me a bad person.

                              I have to ask, do you agree with me on that point? Is it ok for me to want sex? Not demand it, not pressure anyone for it, just to want it. Because my previous two partners that I've been complaining about certainly didn't think so. In case I have not been entirely clear, I'm not trying to pressure anyone into anything they don't want to do, and I'm being as circumspect as I know how to be about my desires. However, just like no one owes me sex, I don't owe anyone a relationship. It's my right to make lack of sex a deal breaker. I just wish more women would be up front about their lack of desire, so as to save us both time and heartbreak.

                              And yes, as with pistol's point that I may have been a bad lover, I fully acknowledge that I may have been screwing up the relationships in some other way that decreased their desire for sex. Once again, all I can say is that I asked, and wasn't given any useful feedback on that point. If it was something I was doing that was causing their lack of desire, and they weren't honest or motivated enough to help me do better, that is functionally indistinguishable from them just hating sex for no reason and lying about it to trap me.
                              I don't think I missed your point, I was trying to get clarification. In the 6 hrs you might spend time at movies and dinner , was there any physical affection? If yes, then your complaint is about sex. If no, then your complaint is re physical affection irrespective of sex.

                              Which is it?

                              You want a woman to be upfront about her libido.
                              But what's normal, less or more? That depends on the partner they are with. It's about compatibility.

                              I dont think these women "trapped" you! Or intentionally duped you.
                              Everyones libido is somewhat increased at the early stages of a relationship.

                              I have had a higher libido than some ex partners and likewise lower.
                              So how am I meant to gauge my libido? I can't , it depends on who I am with.

                              There was only one relationship I was in where my libido could have been described as significantly higher. But actually in hindsight , I think it was physical intimacy and touch that I craved , because that was what he lacked.

                              Of course its normal to desire sex and have a healthy fulfilled sexual life.
                              And yes it's ok to have it as a deal breaker.
                              But to write a potential off because she was upfront about not having sex on the first date is ridiculous!
                              I hope you didn't ruin your chances because she might just be your match!

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