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  • Meeting the parents with anxiety

    First of, this isn't about my own anxiety, rather my girlfriend's anxiety. I love her dearly, that hasn't changed or will, but I do feel troubled and I need somewhere to let it out and ask for advice.

    I've been dating my girlfriend for about 6 months now, things between us are great. She recently came to meet my parents, but things didn't go as smooth. Let me explain why...
    She gets very nervous and anxious to the point that she forgets how to properly speak depending on the situation she's on. My parents tried to make it as easy as possible understanding she is extremely shy, but she only said a couple of words.
    I was worried about this from the start. I knew she had issues with being open and talkative with new people, I also knew how my parents were. They are conservative and first impressions matter, but it's not what my family thinks.
    After she left home, my mother spoke with me and laid it out as followed:
    She's not humble
    She has no manners
    "She"
    meaning my girlfriend. It eats me inside because I personally know my girlfriend, I know it's not that because even after, I had chats with her telling her she should try practicing with me. She has told me she knows what she wants to say, but finds it very hard for the words to come out. It's just as soul crushing to her, that she wants to open up more, but it's difficult.

    I am upset, I love my mother, so I want her full support, but she pretty much told me that I need to teach her how to be respectful and to speak etc, not too pleased with the first impression of my girlfriend.
    While I understand both sides, I tried to explain to my mother that it's not what she thinks, yet I doubt I've convinced her. It just tears me up inside emotionally, I want my parents to just adore her and see her like I do. I can honestly see a future with this girl and I would hate for them to see her in a negative light because of this disability.

    I should emphasize that my parents are old school and conservative, so to them this spoke volumes. I'm not too sure how to approach this issue with my girlfriend without hurting her feelings or making her feel terrible.
    Last edited by TheAGeek; September 23rd, 2018, 08:55 PM.
    There is no normal life that is free of pain. It’s the very wrestling with our problems that can be the impetus for our growth.
    -Fred Rogers

  • #2
    TheAGeek Take it easy and relax. I was in your girlfriend's shoes long ago. I've been married a while.

    My MIL & FIL (mother-in-law / father-in-law) are conservative, too.

    I was nervous upon meeting my new in-laws and it's a learning curve for both sides. We had a bit of a rocky start, our wires got crossed, there was miscommunication, misunderstandings and over the years, both of us have since mellowed considerably.

    There's always a fine line though. I tell my husband an earful all the time and like you, he's caught in the middle. I get along with my in-laws but we're not old chums and far from it. We're polite, respectful, well-mannered and gracious toward one another but I wouldn't go so far as to say we're "close." It's the way it is with in-law situations and to tell you the truth, while I love my husband's relatives, I don't particularly care for them. This sentiment is quite universal!

    When they're sick, had hardship of any kind, emergencies or whenever their lives were temporarily turned upside down, I made homemade dinners, side dishes and dessert and sent them off with my husband to give to his parents. I love from afar. I have my boundaries.

    Don't worry, both your girlfriend and your parents don't know each other well yet. My in-laws and I became closer in sincerely heartfelt ways once I gave them two grandsons. We had more in common once I became a mother and my husband became a father. We could relate better.

    Not that you have to do the same but new in-law relationships take many years to cultivate, nurture, develop and maintain. It does not happen over night. Patience is key.

    Was your girlfriend boastful? Is this why she was perceived as not humble? Also, often times a person's silence is considered rude, arrogant, standoffish and ill-mannered. This is the message we often receive so you should remind your mother that first impressions can be negative impressions if a person is unnaturally silent, nervous and self conscious.

    The best thing to do right now is to give both sides a break. Don't force it. They'll get together in the future, make it infrequent and over time, both sides should become more comfortable with each other.

    How about an activity in the future instead of just sitting together for dinner? Board games? An outing? A good diversion and scenery often times helps draw people together, garners laughter and lightheartedness. It helps loosen people up so there is less tension in the air.
    "If you bungle raising your children, whatever else you do well in life doesn't matter very much."

    Comment


    • #3
      There could be two scenarios here: your girlfriend really is an imbecile or your parents are overbearing. Regardless, I think it was inappropriate of your parents to take you aside and tell you in your ear that your partner is not humble and has no manners after one impression. That tells me a lot about their personalities and they are a little quick to jump the gun or impulsive.

      If I were you, take it with a grain of salt and learn to filter information. You're getting info or feedback from your parents which you cannot control. They are your parents and everyone is entitled to an opinion. What you can do is process that information - either accept it or disregard it. You don't seem confident about your girlfriend and you're a mess because of something your mother said. Learn to buffer information and be a little more thicker skinned. Joke with your mother and ease up the situation a little. I wouldn't suggest mentioning to your girlfriend those things your mother mentioned to you in private. Consider that private information and go on about your life as you intend to do. You're a little too emotional and over-worked by your parents. Real life will have a lot of knocks thrown your way if you don't learn to mitigate or buffer all the miscellaneous info coming your way.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by chanelle View Post
        TheAGeek Take it easy and relax. I was in your girlfriend's shoes long ago. I've been married a while.

        My MIL & FIL (mother-in-law / father-in-law) are conservative, too.

        I was nervous upon meeting my new in-laws and it's a learning curve for both sides. We had a bit of a rocky start, our wires got crossed, there was miscommunication, misunderstandings and over the years, both of us have since mellowed considerably.

        There's always a fine line though. I tell my husband an earful all the time and like you, he's caught in the middle. I get along with my in-laws but we're not old chums and far from it. We're polite, respectful, well-mannered and gracious toward one another but I wouldn't go so far as to say we're "close." It's the way it is with in-law situations and to tell you the truth, while I love my husband's relatives, I don't particularly care for them. This sentiment is quite universal!

        When they're sick, had hardship of any kind, emergencies or whenever their lives were temporarily turned upside down, I made homemade dinners, side dishes and dessert and sent them off with my husband to give to his parents. I love from afar. I have my boundaries.

        Don't worry, both your girlfriend and your parents don't know each other well yet. My in-laws and I became closer in sincerely heartfelt ways once I gave them two grandsons. We had more in common once I became a mother and my husband became a father. We could relate better.

        Not that you have to do the same but new in-law relationships take many years to cultivate, nurture, develop and maintain. It does not happen over night. Patience is key.

        Was your girlfriend boastful? Is this why she was perceived as not humble? Also, often times a person's silence is considered rude, arrogant, standoffish and ill-mannered. This is the message we often receive so you should remind your mother that first impressions can be negative impressions if a person is unnaturally silent, nervous and self conscious.

        The best thing to do right now is to give both sides a break. Don't force it. They'll get together in the future, make it infrequent and over time, both sides should become more comfortable with each other.

        How about an activity in the future instead of just sitting together for dinner? Board games? An outing? A good diversion and scenery often times helps draw people together, garners laughter and lightheartedness. It helps loosen people up so there is less tension in the air.
        First of, thank you Chanelle I appreciate the time you took to share your personal experience with me.

        As for your question, no, she was nervous, self conscious so yes, she was rather quiet, would smile and answer the bare minimum. I tried to light up the mood by joking around a bit, but I felt the tension from my parents.. My girlfriend was the opposite of boastful. She has suffered from anxiety and depression for years that steam from the abusive environment she grew up in during her childhood. I don't want to go into detail with her private info online, but speech was one of those things she was mocked over and over by a parental figure. I study and major in psychology, so I am more capable of seeing different point of views to this. Plus, she has talks to me openly and has shared a lot, so this is why I can understand why it's hard for her.

        I've talked to her, even before I posted this she had gone to a bigger family gathering and all through the drive there, she was pep talking herself to do better with her anxiety.

        This first impression didn't go as planned, but I am very hopeful for a come back.
        Also, those are great ideas, there is certain board games my parents enjoy and it could be fun to lighten up the mood.

        There is no normal life that is free of pain. It’s the very wrestling with our problems that can be the impetus for our growth.
        -Fred Rogers

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Rose Mosse View Post
          There could be two scenarios here: your girlfriend really is an imbecile or your parents are overbearing. Regardless, I think it was inappropriate of your parents to take you aside and tell you in your ear that your partner is not humble and has no manners after one impression. That tells me a lot about their personalities and they are a little quick to jump the gun or impulsive.

          If I were you, take it with a grain of salt and learn to filter information. You're getting info or feedback from your parents which you cannot control. They are your parents and everyone is entitled to an opinion. What you can do is process that information - either accept it or disregard it. You don't seem confident about your girlfriend and you're a mess because of something your mother said. Learn to buffer information and be a little more thicker skinned. Joke with your mother and ease up the situation a little. I wouldn't suggest mentioning to your girlfriend those things your mother mentioned to you in private. Consider that private information and go on about your life as you intend to do. You're a little too emotional and over-worked by your parents. Real life will have a lot of knocks thrown your way if you don't learn to mitigate or buffer all the miscellaneous info coming your way.
          Here are two other scenarios for you: She suffers from debilitating anxiety caused by factors she had no control over as a child and my parents don't fully understand how deep mental scars and disabilities work.
          I'm not saying they're not entitled to their own opinion, rather, they lack an understanding that roots from their "conservative" way of being raised. I did joke with them to lighten up the mood as much as I could, I also know when the jokes stop.
          I am emotional with this because I have a good connection with my family, and for me, it's important that my girlfriend is welcomed into the family.
          I'm pretty sure to most people, this is pretty standard, wanting to have a good standing relationship with your in laws. I was raised to believe family is very important and the old saying "you don't just marry your partner, you marry their whole family" is quite true.
          I will admit that the high standards at times that my family hold can be a bit too much, no one is perfect, but I understand where they come from and why they think as they do.
          I've discussed this with my girlfriend, we will work through it, because I believe in her and that this will be nothing but a funny story to add to our pile of memories.


          There is no normal life that is free of pain. It’s the very wrestling with our problems that can be the impetus for our growth.
          -Fred Rogers

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by TheAGeek View Post

            First of, thank you Chanelle I appreciate the time you took to share your personal experience with me.

            As for your question, no, she was nervous, self conscious so yes, she was rather quiet, would smile and answer the bare minimum. I tried to light up the mood by joking around a bit, but I felt the tension from my parents.. My girlfriend was the opposite of boastful. She has suffered from anxiety and depression for years that steam from the abusive environment she grew up in during her childhood. I don't want to go into detail with her private info online, but speech was one of those things she was mocked over and over by a parental figure. I study and major in psychology, so I am more capable of seeing different point of views to this. Plus, she has talks to me openly and has shared a lot, so this is why I can understand why it's hard for her.

            I've talked to her, even before I posted this she had gone to a bigger family gathering and all through the drive there, she was pep talking herself to do better with her anxiety.

            This first impression didn't go as planned, but I am very hopeful for a come back.
            Also, those are great ideas, there is certain board games my parents enjoy and it could be fun to lighten up the mood.
            TheAGeek Anytime.

            I respect your privacy regarding your girlfriend. I don't know why she was perceived as "not humble" and "no manners" by your parents and according to what your mother said despite your girlfriend only being nervous, self conscious and quiet but smiled. That is puzzling to me.

            I've found just from life that you really don't know a person after a brief introduction and not conversing with them much. I've met great people and they were great to me especially AFTER I got to know them better. Whenever we meet people for the first time, it is awkward to say the least! Generally, most people are nervous around whom we do not know so it's perfectly natural. People are not initially easy going. It takes a while to warm up and feel comfortable around others.

            Give it time and patience. Also, don't force it. Let everyone crawl out of their shells naturally which will require time and patience.

            Hopefully a group activity such as a board game, card games or something like that will be a healthy diversion and distraction. It helps break the ice, will garner hearty rounds of laughter especially when it gets competitive and it's all in good fun.

            You can make up games such as "Password" which is fun. Just write words on strips of paper, fold it in half, put them in a bowl, have everyone pick one and then that person gives one word hints and clues to make the other person or team guess what the word is. There is a time limit though. I think the time limit is only 1 - 3 minutes per guess.

            Another nice gesture would be for you and your girlfriend to cook a nice dinner meal (side dishes & dessert?) for your parents. Either deliver it to your parents or invite them and then a board or card games afterwards. Sometimes a goodwill overture is required in order for people to grow on each other and for your parents to have a change of heart.
            Last edited by chanelle; September 25th, 2018, 07:44 AM. Reason: typo
            "If you bungle raising your children, whatever else you do well in life doesn't matter very much."

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by chanelle View Post

              TheAGeek Anytime.

              I respect your privacy regarding your girlfriend. I don't know why she was perceived as "not humble" and "no manners" by your parents and according to what your mother said despite your girlfriend only being nervous, self conscious and quiet but smiled. That is puzzling to me.

              I've found just from life that you really don't know a person after a brief introduction and not conversing with them much. I've met great people and they were great to me especially AFTER I got to know them better. Whenever we meet people for the first time, it is awkward to say the least! Generally, most people are nervous around whom we do not know so it's perfectly natural. People are not initially easy going. It takes a while to warm up and feel comfortable around others.

              Give it time and patience. Also, don't force it. Let everyone crawl out of their shells naturally which will require time and patience.

              Hopefully a group activity such as a board game, card games or something like that will be a healthy diversion and distraction. It helps break the ice, will garner hearty rounds of laughter especially when it gets competitive and it's all in good fun.

              You can make up games such as "Password" which is fun. Just write words on strips of paper, fold it in half, put them in a bowl, have everyone pick one and then that person gives one word hints and clues to make the other person or team guess what the word is. There is a time limit though. I think the time limit is only 1 - 3 minutes per guess.

              Another nice gesture would be for you and your girlfriend to cook a nice dinner meal (side dishes & dessert?) for your parents. Either deliver it to your parents or invite them and then a board or card games afterwards. Sometimes a goodwill overture is required in order for people to grow on each other and for your parents to have a change of heart.
              I was just as puzzled as you when she brought that up. It hit me too because my girlfriend is very kind, one of the many reasons I fell for her haha She's the type of girl who'll take the shirt off her back for those she loves.

              I agree, I've dealt with my own share of nervousness, but surprisingly, I've learned to deal with it by always trying to bring up interesting topics, asking questions etc..I've met her father too, (you can only imagine how I felt meeting her father, but I knew I had and wanted to if we both decided to be in a serious relationship), I was just as nervous not knowing what to expect, hoping he would like me.Things went great though haha I charmed my way in, he has already invited me numerous times to spend time with them for dinner.

              I've talked to my girlfriend, she was also feeling uneasy and self conscious about how things turned out. I've spoken with my mother again, I've told her to give her time and have an open mind as well.

              I think I've heard of that game or something similar to it, I'll definitely gather some ideas for out next family meal together. My girlfriend is a great cook, she could definitely win them over with a good home cooked dinner.
              I don't believe things are lost, I'm hopeful for the future, despite my parents nature of being critical, I do feel like this will come to pass, I want it to pass.



              Last edited by TheAGeek; September 25th, 2018, 09:09 PM.
              There is no normal life that is free of pain. It’s the very wrestling with our problems that can be the impetus for our growth.
              -Fred Rogers

              Comment


              • #8
                She suffers from debilitating anxiety caused by factors she had no control over as a child and my parents don't fully understand how deep mental scars and disabilities work.
                Are you understanding of how deep mental scars and disabilities work, *AGeek*?

                I'm sure your mother is concerned about you and your own emotional well being and I would think that she is worried that you've fallen for troubled girl that is showing her "isms."

                Is your g/f getting therapy to help her come to terms with her past and to help her to overcome her anxiety and depression? If she's not, and I knew you, I'd be worried for you.
                Last edited by phasesofthemoon; September 25th, 2018, 09:23 PM.
                "First off, welcome to the Relationship Forums, You'll come to understand that I don't pull any punches when giving my opinion/advice and I hope you're not so sensitive to what I see as the truth of the matter." Me!

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by phasesofthemoon View Post
                  Are you understanding of how deep mental scars and disabilities work, *AGeek*?

                  I'm sure your mother is concerned about you and your own emotional well being and I would think that she is worried that you've fallen for troubled girl that is showing her "isms."

                  Is your g/f getting therapy to help her come to terms with her past and to help her to overcome her anxiety and depression? If she's not, and I knew you, I'd be worried for you.
                  Well, I'd be damn if I didn't when mental disabilities and childhood trauma are the main focuses in my field of study.

                  I'm pretty sure my mother doesn't think that deeply over these issues, to her understanding what makes humans tick or behave as they do, is a waste of money and time, god is all you need to fix your problems. It's a topic we have discussed numerous times, seeing how she was also diagnosed with anxiety and mild depression, but refuses to take her prescribed medication. Funny enough, it was I who sat her down and told her that I honestly believed certain behaviors of hers were indicators of something other than ''I am just tired" or "it's because I had a long day"
                  She thought it was silly, but took me on and spoke with a professional. Till this day, she has refused to believe the diagnosis.

                  It was recently that my girlfriend began to get help through talk therapy, but fixing years of childhood abuse takes time. Admitting you need help and seeking that help takes time and courage as well. She's a strong woman despite it all and wants a brighter future for herself, I'd be worried about me too if I didn't know the person I've chosen to date.
                  Last edited by TheAGeek; September 25th, 2018, 09:50 PM. Reason: typos
                  There is no normal life that is free of pain. It’s the very wrestling with our problems that can be the impetus for our growth.
                  -Fred Rogers

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by phasesofthemoon View Post
                    Are you understanding of how deep mental scars and disabilities work, *AGeek*?

                    I'm sure your mother is concerned about you and your own emotional well being and I would think that she is worried that you've fallen for troubled girl that is showing her "isms."

                    Is your g/f getting therapy to help her come to terms with her past and to help her to overcome her anxiety and depression? If she's not, and I knew you, I'd be worried for you.
                    Well, I'd be damn if I didn't when mental disabilities and childhood trauma are the main focuses in my field of study.

                    I'm pretty sure my mother doesn't think that deeply over these issues, to her understanding what makes humans tick or behave as they do, is a waste of money and time, god is all you need to fix your problems. It's a topic we have discussed numerous times, seeing how she was also diagnosed with anxiety and mild depression, but refuses to take her prescribed medication. Funny enough, it was I who sat her down and told her that I honestly believed certain behaviors of hers were indicators of something other than ''I am just tired" or "it's because I had a long day"
                    She thought it was silly, but took me on and spoke with a professional.

                    It was recently that my girlfriend began to get help through talk therapy, but fixing years of childhood abuse take time. Admitting you need help and seeking that help takes time and courage as well. She's a strong woman despite it all and wants a brighter future for herself, I'd be worried about me too if I didn't know the person I've chosen to date.
                    There is no normal life that is free of pain. It’s the very wrestling with our problems that can be the impetus for our growth.
                    -Fred Rogers

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I would not say anything to your girlfriend about your mother's concerns. This is your life, your choice and your decision. Your mom has to accept your choices. She may have concerns for you but she also needs to be able to support the choices you make for yourself. I think men too many times want to "please" mom and they expect their wife or girlfriend to accommodate or please and personally I think this is unrealistic and puts far too much undo pressure on the partner. I also personally feel a man should not allow his mother to control him and it seems to me like this be what is happening here.

                      Comment


                      • #12


                        TheAGeek Since your girlfriend is kind, then give it time. She'll grow on your parents and your mother will eventually come around.

                        I imagine you must've been nervous upon meeting her father. No one is good enough for his little girl. That's the way fathers and brothers feel. They're very protective as you will someday realize after you have a daughter!

                        Hope your mother will develop an open mind. You really need to let both sides get to know each other better. This process takes months and sometimes years as it did for me.

                        Games are fun ice breakers. People let their guards down and it's easier to laugh or become lighthearted whenever there are healthy distractions. Since your girlfriend is a great cook, well then, that's her chance to make a positive impression. Nothing beats a home cooked a meal. The way to a person's heart is through their stomach! It's a sincere act of goodwill. I'm sure your parents and your mother in particular will be touched by her heartfelt overture.

                        I don't believe things are lost either. It's good to be hopeful and positive for the future. It's not the end of the world. This too shall pass.

                        "If you bungle raising your children, whatever else you do well in life doesn't matter very much."

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by TheAGeek View Post

                          Well, I'd be damn if I didn't when mental disabilities and childhood trauma are the main focuses in my field of study.
                          Have you taken on a "project" then?

                          It was recently that my girlfriend began to get help through talk therapy, but fixing years of childhood abuse take time. Admitting you need help and seeking that help takes time and courage as well. She's a strong woman despite it all and wants a brighter future for herself, I'd be worried about me too if I didn't know the person I've chosen to date.
                          To each their own but I think there is something fundamentally wrong with someone who chooses to get with someone who has mental issues that they've not yet come to terms with. At least she's in therapy now. It's one thing to start out with someone who has these issues, it's another to stay and support someone you've been married to for years and their symptoms suddenly come on. (re: Anxiety and depression). Be careful you don't fall into the trap of being her caretaker (the dysfunctional and codependent opposite of caregiver).

                          Anyway, time will tell if your parents learn to accept her ~ faults and all.

                          Good luck going forth.

                          "First off, welcome to the Relationship Forums, You'll come to understand that I don't pull any punches when giving my opinion/advice and I hope you're not so sensitive to what I see as the truth of the matter." Me!

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by phasesofthemoon View Post
                            Have you taken on a "project" then?

                            To each their own but I think there is something fundamentally wrong with someone who chooses to get with someone who has mental issues that they've not yet come to terms with. At least she's in therapy now. It's one thing to start out with someone who has these issues, it's another to stay and support someone you've been married to for years and their symptoms suddenly come on. (re: Anxiety and depression). Be careful you don't fall into the trap of being her caretaker (the dysfunctional and codependent opposite of caregiver).

                            Anyway, time will tell if your parents learn to accept her ~ faults and all.

                            Good luck going forth.
                            I'm an intern with CPS and I've actually done research at my university with "actual" people. Would you like my training and work record to go along with this answer?

                            From my point of view, there's something fundamentally wrong with people who make drastic assumptions about others with little information to go about.There's no reason to stigmatize individuals who have gone through depression or deal with anxiety; they are very capable of living normal lives.

                            You assume I chose to be with her, because of this, not because she was first an individual with her own values, intellect, hobbies and talents.

                            Symptoms don't "suddenly come on" , that is very dangerous and ignorant thing to say. You can't always spot someone who's dealing with a mental disorder, something common like anxiety and depression can be hidden for years; in fact many patients wait up to 10 years before they come forward.
                            Now, imagine that person who has dysthymia, a persistent depression or low level depression that allows the people who suffer to go through life building successful families and careers.

                            But not to drag this on, we can agree to disagree.

                            I'm very certain that things will be just fine.
                            There is no normal life that is free of pain. It’s the very wrestling with our problems that can be the impetus for our growth.
                            -Fred Rogers

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by TheAGeek View Post

                              I'm an intern with CPS and I've actually done research at my university with "actual" people. Would you like my training and work record to go along with this answer?
                              Nope, not necessary.

                              From my point of view, there's something fundamentally wrong with people who make drastic assumptions about others with little information to go about.
                              You have apparently taken on a project in her. There are plenty of psychologists out there that have codependent tendencies. I think that most people that hook themselves emotionally to someone they know isn't mentally settled and haven't been in therapy may have those codependent tendencies. Most people who are emotionally healthy and have good personal boundaries in place would not want to take on a project or be someone's caretaker through life.

                              There's no reason to stigmatize individuals who have gone through depression or deal with anxiety; they are very capable of living normal lives.
                              Yes, no doubt. I'm not stigmatizing the one who is diagnosed, I'm questioning the mental/emotional health of those that take them on as life partners.

                              You assume I chose to be with her, because of this, not because she was first an individual with her own values, intellect, hobbies and talents.
                              Yes, I'm considering if you are one of those people that have a need to caretake.

                              Symptoms don't "suddenly come on" , that is very dangerous and ignorant thing to say
                              It is not. My husband's anxiety suddenly came on after 35 years of marriage and he sought treatment immediately because he knew things were not right.

                              You can't always spot someone who's dealing with a mental disorder, something common like anxiety and depression can be hidden for years; in fact many patients wait up to 10 years before they come forward.
                              So? That's the issue isn't it. Someone waiting 10 years before they come forward.

                              [quote]My question to you was "have you taken on a project then?" Have you? You don't need to answer here... just something that came to mind.

                              Now, imagine that person who has dysthymia, a persistent depression or low level depression that allows the people who suffer to go through life building successful families and careers.
                              Imagine! Its something that some people with codependency issues would be glad to take a chance on and to caretake/enable through life.

                              But not to drag this on, we can agree to disagree.
                              Cool!

                              I'm very certain that things will be just fine.
                              Good luck.

                              "First off, welcome to the Relationship Forums, You'll come to understand that I don't pull any punches when giving my opinion/advice and I hope you're not so sensitive to what I see as the truth of the matter." Me!

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