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  • He wants to marry a 10...

    Hi all,
    BF and I have been together nearly 2.5 years & we love each other a lot, we are seriously best friends!! I'm 33, he's 34, we're both pretty secure in our career. We have similar spunky driven energies, similar interests, & since meeting we've been on the same page about marriage, starting a family, future goals... This is important to both of us. We have a great compatibility, run a business together, get things done easily together... He's a very kind, compassionate & fun person, he makes me laugh, his sense of humor is like none other, he cooks, he cleans, it's great!! We live together & have combined finances. This past year we've been talking about paying off all debts, buying land, & building a house. We've both been married before and have openly discussed marriage with specific timelines in our heads for engagement. However, these timelines have come and gone, getting pushed back further. I'm starting to think he has some major commitment issues and insecurities.

    Last year we took a trip to Europe, he had hinted that he may propose in Venice. During the trip, I discovered a ring box in his suitcase & thought WOW this is gonna happen, but then realized the ring was one of my own rings that my mom had given me (it looks like an engagement ring). Venice came & went, & he didn't propose. I told him I was a bit disappointed, & he apologized for leading me on. I was also disappointed that he was using one of my rings. He said he didn't want to tote an expensive ring abroad that might get lost. (Besides that, it also meant he hadn't saved up for a ring!) After much discussion, he said he wasn't ready, so we decided to focus on our relationship & possibly getting engaged the following summer (1 year in the future)... Since then, he's hinted on occasion "you never know, I may be saving up for a ring!" and I've kept my hopes up.

    However, I'm starting to think that this is not the case & we may have an expiration date because during our fights or discussions, he'll often start talking about what would happen in the future if we were to break up & scheming it out.

    Over Christmas, he told me he spoken with his dad who has been encouraging him to marry me but he's conflicted because he's not ready... he wants to be considerate of possessing my time, & says he's under a lot of pressure to make the decision every day. I don't usually push the topic, so the pressure is not coming from me! We had hit our 2 year mark. In the beginning we had talked about engagement at 1.5 years so I asked him how much more time he needs. He says he doesn't know. I told him I'll be patient & enjoy the relationship, but I'm not going to wait forever...

    Last week, we were moving into a new apartment in a different city, he was starting a new job. The goal for doing this is to pay off our debts so we can buy land & go off the grid. With logistics, we were super stressed. He has a lot of friends in the new city, & I have a lot of friends in our current one, so I'm going through a process of letting go. We got into arguments every single day about weird things that he would normally start. (ie: He's the cook in the household, but after his first day of work I had agreed to cook dinner one night & have it ready by 6. Unfortunately I didn't have it ready until 6:15. He got home & started bossing me around about how I wasn't cooking things right, & was upset because I didn't apologize right off the bat for not having it ready on time. 'If it were him, he would've had it ready AND apologized,' so he says he can't rely on me). Later he apologized for acting like that, it was his first day of work & he had been really stressed. We continued having arguments like this every day, by the end of the week we were exhausted & he asked me if I wanted to just stay in the current city & not move up to the new city with him. I said no, & asked him if he wants to break up, he said no. After the weekend, he said he's willing to put that week behind us & move forward, acknowledging it was just a hard week for both of us.

    We really love our new apartment and the new city, but things were still hanging in our heads so we went on a hike to talk about it. I opened up that I'm starting to get uncomfortable talking about buying land & building a house without having an important step mentioned: marriage. We'd be coming up on 2.5 years this summer & I told him by the 3rd year, it seems like people should know enough about the other to marry. He says that he can't get over the fact that we may just be settling for each other when we're not each other's ideal types. He prefers tall girls with dark long hair, & yet I'm short with short dark hair. In the past I have gone for many darker guys with long hair, yet he's white with short hair (I have no issue with this but he thinks that's what I prefer & am not admitting it)... Also in the past he thought it'd be fun if we ranked each other on a scale of 1-10, and we both ranked each other at an 8. This seemed to really bother him & he says that I deserve someone who thinks I'm a 10, & vice versa. He says one of his ex's was a 10 in his eyes & she thought he was a 10, & she doted on him all the time. He says I don't dote on him nor show him that I love him as much as he's experienced with that ex. He says he doesn't feel the same passion. In fact, nobody he's dated after her has met the mark & he's been struggling with this fact for our entire relationship. (I honestly dote on him a ton & don't understand why he's not receiving it as such..) He's spoken to his dad and a friend about his afflictions & they told him that he may want to reconsider being with me if he doesn't feel a satisfying level 10 of attraction. When he tells them about our compatibility, they changed their minds & said chances are, he wouldn't meet someone who is as compatible as me AND a 10 in his eyes, so that's messing with his decision as well. He doesn't want to ever get divorced again & wants to be 100% sure.

    But then he started to discuss what would happen if we broke up again, the logistics, who would move where, & says it's good to discuss such things. Through all this he continues to reassure me that he's not going to leave me, that he has both feet in, that I have his whole heart, that talking about buying land & building a house is a sign of commitment, & that he just needs time to sort these things out in his head. I asked him "Have you actually been saving up for a ring then?" He admitted that he has not, so I asked him to please stop pretending like he like he might be, and he apologized.

    I'm happy that he's open and communicative to me about this but now I'm feeling very confused and insecure about us. It's not just about marriage: it's about having his whole heart, it's about commitment & security, it's about having a family... It's also about him comparing everything to his ex (who he was with in his 20s, & he thought she was cheating on him a lot during his deployments -- clearly they didn't work out)... I feel like I'm being strung along with all the mixed messages. I asked him what he would say if I were to propose to him, and he asked me not to propose to him.

    The summer is coming up & I want to keep waiting. I love him so much and would hate to lose him. He's such a wonderful person & adds so much to my life. I think I add much to his life as well. He's even said "if I were to marry you, my life would be so easy, you are zero drama." My life would be incredibly easy too, I believe. We have a lot of fun together, we really do.

    Does anyone have any advice, or have you been in a similar situation? Constructive feedback is appreciated.. Thank you friends!


  • #2
    Hi ali,

    Just a quick question before I go onto some other thoughts I have.

    Why marriage ? Do you feel that without it you don't really have his 'whole heart,commitment & security' ?
    What is a ceremony ( or not) a ring and a piece of paper going to give you, that you're not getting now ?

    It won't turn either of you into a '10', so what's the difference ?
    The definition of insanity: doing the same thing over and over again, and expecting a different result.

    Comment


    • #3
      Hi pistol,
      Thanks for your input. We had talked about marriage as being one of our goals together from the get-go, and have been dating with that intention... But it seems he's retracted this to some extent & is not actively working towards it like he was before. He has shown me a lot of commitment, though these kinds of conversations exhibit doubts and make me wonder otherwise... He is the kind of guy who doesn't like making commitments or plans, & prefers to 'wing it' a lot of days. He's had a tendency to back out of plans at the last minute on people, but has been working to change this, realizing it's not fair to them & it makes him look flaky. So for me yes, marriage is a matter of security and commitment... I want to know that he's not afraid to commit to me, and is not going to back out at the last minute after say 5 years down the road, because he feels he needs a 10 or whatever... I personally don't care if he's a 10, I like him as an 8 And I do want to have kids and so does he!

      I could be fine just continuing as we are, paying off debt, buying land, etc. We have a very harmonious thing going. But marriage is important to me, and I know it's important to him. I've also heard and read all sorts of things that say, don't go buying a house with someone you're not married to. It's like putting the cart in front of that horse.

      Comment


      • #4
        Okay, I just wanted to get a feel for what your definition of marriage was. For the record, I do agree with you.

        I have friends that have DATED for 17 years. They live together, they are exclusive to one another, and they even got a dog last year to 'raise together'
        She has never been married, he has, and he will not marry again.

        The difference between you and them, of course, is that my friend KNOWS he will not marry her, because as far as he is concerned, he's already done it, and what did a piece of paper, a ring, and a ceremony get him ? DIVORCED.
        She still nudges him every once in a while, but she is resolved to the fact that she doesn't need all of the above to know what she means to him and what their relationship 'is' - and for some women/men, that's enough.

        Perhaps your man keeps putting off marriage because, deep down (and the whole 8/10 aside) he's still wrestling with the thought that you guys might not make it.

        I will say that I don't think it's healthy at all for him to discuss an exit plan from you, and who will get what, and so on. That would be a red flag.
        However, in between my 1st husband, dating and meeting the man I married last summer, there was enough mistrust, doubt and concern about our longevity, that I could envision the break up and who would get what and who would go where.....(this is why I always kept my own place and never moved in with them. 'WHEN' it ended, I could stay where I was

        What I'm getting at is, considering your ages and your experience, it really IS okay for him to have some reservations about re-marrying. He's completely on board, it seems, with your other plans (debt payback, saving money for the purchase of land to build on, etc)
        Sometimes it takes some longer than others to be 100% sold on the whole 'marriage thing'

        Perhaps once you guys start making some noticeable strides towards your shared goals, the thought of marrying you will become the natural progression for him.

        The definition of insanity: doing the same thing over and over again, and expecting a different result.

        Comment


        • #5
          Adding:

          Surely he can't be that na´ve to think that you each being an '8' is not what the other deserves, when things with his perfect '10' didn't work out.
          The definition of insanity: doing the same thing over and over again, and expecting a different result.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by alibabac View Post

            Does anyone have any advice, or have you been in a similar situation? Constructive feedback is appreciated.. Thank you friends!
            He's behaving poorly but he knows you'll stick around and put up with it because he knows what you want. He's emotionally manipulating you. Whether he's afraid or not is besides the point, in my opinion. If he's afraid, have the balls to say so. Don't skirt around the issue and string you along the way he has. I don't suggest you continue trusting this person as you've already invested x amount of years together and you still can't seem to suss him out, he doesn't say what he means and you yourself have said he is flaky. The last thing I want to mention is his classless act bringing up his ex/s and what he rated them in comparison to you. Are you kidding me? This person is close to the lowest of the low. Please hold yourself in higher regard and see this for what it really is. See him for what he really is.

            Comment


            • #7
              WOW. You might not think you are pushing him but when someone flat out tells you they aren't ready for something you should take it at it's word.

              I get that marriage is important to you but come one it's only been 2.5 years. You make it seem like it's been 10 years now.

              After reading your story it sounds to me like he's not ready to ask you to marry him (doesn't mean he doesn't love you or want to be with you) but knows it's only a matter of time till you leave (your words) and it protecting himself by pushing you away.

              My advise would be to sit him down and tell him you aren't going anywhere and when he is ready you will be ready. Move forward with your lives together and stop worrying about a little peice of paper so much. Anything less then that and he's going to keep pushing you away. And at some point one of you are going to have enough and end it.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by IOERROR View Post
                WOW. You might not think you are pushing him but when someone flat out tells you they aren't ready for something you should take it at it's word.

                I get that marriage is important to you but come one it's only been 2.5 years. You make it seem like it's been 10 years now.

                After reading your story it sounds to me like he's not ready to ask you to marry him (doesn't mean he doesn't love you or want to be with you) but knows it's only a matter of time till you leave (your words) and it protecting himself by pushing you away.

                My advise would be to sit him down and tell him you aren't going anywhere and when he is ready you will be ready. Move forward with your lives together and stop worrying about a little peice of paper so much. Anything less then that and he's going to keep pushing you away. And at some point one of you are going to have enough and end it.
                I hear you IOERROR... Honestly I don't usually bring it up & keep it to myself. I've also told him that I'll wait for him. But on the flipside, he wants me to be 150% open with him. He's the one who usually brings it up and asks me if it ever bothers me that we're not engaged yet. He ENCOURAGES me to talk about it and share my desires, anxieties & feelings about marriage & gets upset when I don't bring things up that might rock the boat. I tell him when some other people I know are getting engaged, and then he'll ask me "does that bother you? how does that make you feel?" He wants to know and he wants to hear it. He wants the whole me, with all the crazy included. This recent conversation came up because I asked him how he felt about our relationship after we'd been arguing & stressed the past week, and it morphed into desires for marriage & timelines. I am willing to wait longer. At the same time, I don't want to compromise my values too far because marriage was something we both wanted entering the relationship. I don't want to wait forever for a man who might never fully commit to me.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Hi all,
                  Thank you all for your thoughtful responses & for taking the time to consider all of this. I would like to clarify a few things!

                  While I realize this does make him look very superficial, he is everything BUT superficial & shallow. He is an ultra-communicator & very honest, more than any guy I've ever known. I love being around him because the conversations are endless, he's very thought-provoking, and we do get into the nitty gritty that most people would consider inappropriate, such as discussing our ex's together and who we think is attractive, and this deepens our understanding of each other and intimacy. Our relationship started with great conversations and I appreciate his over-honesty, never feel like he's hiding something. I can see how expressing your every inkling and doubt can be detrimental for some people but when there is a mutual understanding, it can work... For a while, I didn't like how open he was so he tried to stuff things down & filter them for my sake, but that made him miserable, & I'd rather have him feel like he can be himself & open up to me than bottle it all down. I myself have had issues being as open and am more private, but he's helped me to become a better communicator and I've grown immensely. He's also not a lazy person, he's incredibly smart, cleans the house, cooks the meals, has a great job, & is just one-of-a-kind, all packaged up. He thinks highly of me as well and loves me for my character, my personality, my passions in life, my independence, my looks (even if I'm not his ideal "type") etc.

                  To be fair, we both rated each other an 8 -- I do not feel insulted because an 8 is still very high. He says 8 is a good number for dating, but has an issue with what it actually means for marriage. What I think this is really boiling down to is determining whether marriage would work without the level 10 full package of attraction, and what's missing for him is passion. We have a great compatibility and a decent level of passion in my opinion, but he's not sure if we have a high enough level of passion for each other to survive the long-term. He needs to be shown this passion on the daily to believe it's there. I am passionate about him & try to show him in many different ways on the daily, but he's not quite convinced & wants to make sure I'm not forcing it. I express my passion for him by trying to hold his hand everytime we walk, putting my hand on his thigh when he drives, squeezing his arms & hold onto them, I always stroke my hand through his hair, I bring him gifts on occasion, tell him how much I love him & appreciate him, tell him how proud I am of him, I encourage him, gaze at him from across the room or up close, nuzzle my face into the nook of his neck, give him mini shoulder rubs, inhale his scent fondly, tell him how much I love him, stop him while walking for small and long kisses, tell him he's handsome & sexy (he is!!!), etc... I could do better at being passionate in bed and don't often initiate things or engage fully if I'm tired, and have less of a sex drive than he does... There are times that I'm stoic or tired... but so is he sometimes & doesn't always show me passion either, but I know he's a VERY passionate and driven person. He says that his friends, coworkers and biological dad show him their love and appreciation for him, & he feels it from them but he doesn't feel it from me. I'm not really sure how I could be showing more passion, love or appreciation, which leads me to think he just doesn't see it or notice it? Or he doesn't want to see it because he's scared, I don't know. I think it's different because we're involved romantically, & I get to witness his TRUE self including the bad stuff that other people don't get to see. If we're fighting, obviously that influences whether I'm able to fully show him my love.

                  Sometimes I wonder if this is all stemming from his broken home and insecurities from childhood, and maybe he's having trouble receiving and believing true love & thinks passion/love are what he had with his ex. His parents got divorced when he was young & his mom re-married his stepdad, who was very strict, beat him up all the time, threw him against the wall, was never proud of him, very verbally/physically/mentally abusive, restricted his food, etc. His mom was verbally abusive, blamed my BF who was a kid for her misery, & was checked out... His brother couldn't stand it anymore and committed suicide at 15. When my BF was 8 years old, he dreamt about having a healthy family someday. He's determined to be a great dad, to have a solid marriage, to passionately love his wife who passionately loves him back, and wants to be able to show his kids that mom & dad still have passion and are in love even years down the road. That's why this is so important for him, and that is admirable to me. I've seen him with kids and he's amazing. We've talked about having kids & marriage, though the discussion about level of passion is what keeps coming to make him doubt it would work through the long-term, through the thick & thin. I've stuck with him through some really hard things that he was going through, so he knows that I'm solid in that aspect.

                  The internet has a tendency to say "just leave him," so I appreciate the constructive feedback & consideration of the backstory here. I will continue to wait and to fight for this for a bit longer. At the same time, I also recognize that I might need to walk away. UGH!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by alibabac View Post

                    To be fair, we both rated each other an 8 -- I do not feel insulted because an 8 is still very high. He says 8 is a good number for dating, but has an issue with what it actually means for marriage. What I think this is really boiling down to is determining whether marriage would work without the level 10 full package of attraction, and what's missing for him is passion. We have a great compatibility and a decent level of passion in my opinion, but he's not sure if we have a high enough level of passion for each other to survive the long-term. He needs to be shown this passion on the daily to believe it's there. I am passionate about him & try to show him in many different ways on the daily, but he's not quite convinced & wants to make sure I'm not forcing it. I express my passion for him by trying to hold his hand everytime we walk, putting my hand on his thigh when he drives, squeezing his arms & hold onto them, I always stroke my hand through his hair, I bring him gifts on occasion, tell him how much I love him & appreciate him, tell him how proud I am of him, I encourage him, gaze at him from across the room or up close, nuzzle my face into the nook of his neck, give him mini shoulder rubs, inhale his scent fondly, tell him how much I love him, stop him while walking for small and long kisses, tell him he's handsome & sexy (he is!!!), etc... I could do better at being passionate in bed and don't often initiate things or engage fully if I'm tired, and have less of a sex drive than he does... There are times that I'm stoic or tired... but so is he sometimes & doesn't always show me passion either, but I know he's a VERY passionate and driven person. He says that his friends, coworkers and biological dad show him their love and appreciation for him, & he feels it from them but he doesn't feel it from me. I'm not really sure how I could be showing more passion, love or appreciation, which leads me to think he just doesn't see it or notice it? Or he doesn't want to see it because he's scared, I don't know. I think it's different because we're involved romantically, & I get to witness his TRUE self including the bad stuff that other people don't get to see. If we're fighting, obviously that influences whether I'm able to fully show him my love.
                    He's a complete douche and sounds like a brat. This isn't a man at all but a baby. I'm shocked that you would continue to go through so much trouble to convince him that you are passionate. That is absurd. Go on and feel sorry for him and stay a little longer. I think you need to feel when you've absolutely hit rock bottom in order to leave. This person is emotionally manipulating you and hasn't discovered who he really is or what he wants and he's taking it out on your relationship.

                    The over-sharing and desire to talk about your exes is a personal decision but it is also incredibly superficial and mindless to continue talking about subjects that don't necessarily enhance a relationship and just cause more questions and insecurities. I think you're blind. Wake up and good luck.

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