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  • #16
    Originally posted by pot plant View Post

    Thank you and I have suggested that we get some counseling together. I'm not sure how it works in the UK but I'll look into it.

    I'm not sure I agree that love has nothing to do with the success of a relationship as it ultimately enables people to compromise and make changes for the good of the other person,
    That sentiment takes TWO people. You are in this alone in trying to remedy.

    We wouldn't form relationships if we didn't feel love as a basic human instinct. However I agree that it shouldn't be the only thing holding a relationship together.
    It CAN'T be the only thing that holds a relationship together. Love is never enough... as you're finding out.

    "First off, welcome to the Relationship Forums, You'll come to understand that I don't pull any punches when giving my opinion/advice and I hope you're not so sensitive to what I see as the truth of the matter." Me!

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    • #17
      Definitely you are incompatible. And that is something you can't change.
      One or other can appear to but it will be short lived and not without resentment.

      You dont have respect for normal relationship boundaries .
      And just because your last ex accepted your sleepovers at a male friends house doesn't mean any current or future partner should.
      Perhaps your exes just didn't care enough. Who knows.
      But suggesting that not seeing this friend you see once yearly is such a sacrifice would hardly instil security in anyone you are dating.

      All well and good that you invited him climbing with your friend but when that didn't work out you still went ahead climbing one on one with him. You don't seem to understand your partner. He said he'd rather break up with you than you lose your friends. And your response is you are damned if you do and damned if you don't?!
      He shouldn't have to ask you to stay within normal boundaries. That should come from you willingly.
      He doesn't want to tell you that you shouldn't have one on one outings with other males.
      But by you not doing so is disrespecting him and your relationship. Added insecurity.

      Yes he is overly sensitive and jealous but you are not helping one bit either.

      And as phases pointed out earlier you and him were the result of an emotional affair with a platonic friend . What's to stop you doing it again? You and him are a product of your disrespect for relationship boundaries.

      In saying that he is abusive. Just because it's not physical doesn't mean it's not real and equally as damaging.
      When you try to explain yourself he just wants you "to say sorry and give him a hug" , thereby no discussion , you admitting you are at fault (you have been on occasions but clearly not always) and enabling his warped thinking.

      6 months into a rebound relationship, honeymoon period over, all this drama in such a short time, time to call it quits.

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by pot plant View Post

        Thank you and I have suggested that we get some counseling together. I'm not sure how it works in the UK but I'll look into it.

        I'm not sure I agree that love has nothing to do with the success of a relationship as it ultimately enables people to compromise and make changes for the good of the other person, even though it may not be exactly what you yourself want. We wouldn't form relationships if we didn't feel love as a basic human instinct. However I agree that it shouldn't be the only thing holding a relationship together.
        What???
        All relationships start without love. Romantic relationships start generally with passion , sometimes intimacy as yours did.
        I am starting to think that neither of you actually love each other, it's more infatuous love or something else.

        Google Sternbergs triangular theory of love.

        Love has nothing to do with the success of a relationship, a mother can love a child and still not have a successful relationship with him /her.
        Love doesn't enable compromise. Respect and committment do.

        Look at how many successful arranged marriages there are.
        And the high divorce rate amongst others.

        I wouldnt bother with counselling 6 months in and I sense that Phases only suggested it so that you would get a professional to tell you that you are incompatible and then perhaps believe it?

        Why are you so adamant to make a crumbling short lived relationship work??!
        How long were you with your ex?
        There is something amiss here!

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by Maggiemay4791 View Post
          Definitely you are incompatible. And that is something you can't change.
          One or other can appear to but it will be short lived and not without resentment.

          You dont have respect for normal relationship boundaries .
          And just because your last ex accepted your sleepovers at a male friends house doesn't mean any current or future partner should.
          Perhaps your exes just didn't care enough. Who knows.
          But suggesting that not seeing this friend you see once yearly is such a sacrifice would hardly instil security in anyone you are dating.

          All well and good that you invited him climbing with your friend but when that didn't work out you still went ahead climbing one on one with him. You don't seem to understand your partner. He said he'd rather break up with you than you lose your friends. And your response is you are damned if you do and damned if you don't?!
          He shouldn't have to ask you to stay within normal boundaries. That should come from you willingly.
          He doesn't want to tell you that you shouldn't have one on one outings with other males.
          But by you not doing so is disrespecting him and your relationship. Added insecurity.
          I think it's important to identify that initially we had different relationship boundaries, and I based mine on what my previous partner was comfortable with. However I have now changed my boundaries in light of what my new partner is comfortable with. That seems to be lost in your statement, and yes, it has come willingly. Saying that I do not respect his boundaries isn't correct as I have clearly acted on them. I have never said 'that hurts you, but I'm doing it anyway'.

          I also don't agree that we are incompatible because one of us is struggling with a mental problem. If two people disagree on relationship boundaries, fine, but that is now not the case.

          As I've said a few times now, I haven't done any of these things with my current partner. I haven't gone climbing one on one after I knew he was uncomfortable with it - he didn't make me fully aware at first as he was struggling with his problem and trying not to control me. As I said earlier, I have now given up climbing with this friend, either alongside my partner or without him. As with my other friend, he's not happy with me going alone, but wants me to go so he's not being controlling, but also doesn't want to come along as he feels uncomfortable. That is what I mean about being damned if I do and damned if I don't in terms of helping him feel better. He realises that he's saying that he wants his cake and to eat it. I've made the decision to not go as I don't want to hurt him. I also recognise that whilst I don't like this behaviour, these feelings are real for him and he is trying to deal with them; he's not doing it on purpose, he's doing it because he's hurting.

          Originally posted by Maggiemay4791 View Post
          Yes he is overly sensitive and jealous but you are not helping one bit either.
          I am trying very hard to help him. My point now is that what is happening to upset him is, in my opinion, irrational and now at such a small level that I cannot avoid upsetting him, for example, playing part of a song on guitar. I keep tripping up and hurting him because these things are so small that I am bound to fail. At the same time, these things are a part of me - I don't want to stop playing songs I like and don't think that I should have to. I don't think that reading out an email about a voucher is insensitive. However, he doesn't seem to be seeing that and changing his behaviour as a result.

          Originally posted by Maggiemay4791 View Post
          And as phases pointed out earlier you and him were the result of an emotional affair with a platonic friend . What's to stop you doing it again? You and him are a product of your disrespect for relationship boundaries.
          I was not involved with my ex before I got together with my partner so find this a little unfair. Perhaps he is speaking from his own actions; he told me his feeling before breaking up with his girlfriend (I broke with my ex earlier than him). He has mentioned it in these same terms, i.e. he knows how he's acted so he's afraid I'll do the same thing.

          Originally posted by Maggiemay4791 View Post
          In saying that he is abusive. Just because it's not physical doesn't mean it's not real and equally as damaging.
          When you try to explain yourself he just wants you "to say sorry and give him a hug" , thereby no discussion , you admitting you are at fault (you have been on occasions but clearly not always) and enabling his warped thinking.
          Yes, this is very damaging for me and is causing me a lot of pain too. What hurts is exactly what you've said; I'm not allowed to have my feelings recognised as it takes away from his feelings (i.e. he was upset first) but that doesn't mean that the resulting situation has no effect on me and causes pain for myself. He often says that he understands that it's not my fault and that I haven't done anything wrong, which I find really hard, as if he knew I didn't do anything wrong then why subject us both to this?

          Originally posted by Maggiemay4791 View Post
          6 months into a rebound relationship, honeymoon period over, all this drama in such a short time, time to call it quits.
          I've had a rebound relationship and I feel that this is different. Many people leave their current partners for other people and go on to have happy relationships - several of my friends have done this and I have agonised about how quickly I have become involved with someone else. I wasn't happy for a long time in my previous relationship and tried very hard to fix it but he didn't want to or couldn't change.

          I think at this point I'm not really asking for a breakdown of what I have done wrong and what he has done wrong. I understand how this has developed from both our sides. I am ACTIVELY trying to stop any of these things happening, but it does not seem to work as now the smallest thing sets him off.

          I am just trying to find positive ways to try and make this better - I realise that it will be a slow process - without breaking up. Yes, it may come to that, who knows. But I refuse to just give up on this relationship. I just cannot seem to get through to him.

          As I said I think these things will keep happening - what I need to do is understand how to deal with them until he starts to honestly trust me (he says he does but this is clearly the underlying issue) and then hopefully he will be strong enough to be able to find them and dismiss them himself.

          Comment


          • #20
            I am trying very hard to help him. My point now is that what is happening to upset him is, in my opinion, irrational
            Yes it is but he's not going to change. I think you should go to personal therapy without him because you are rational, you understand his irrationality yet you still want to stay and try and fix this very short relationship that has turned out not to be what you expected during your emotional affair build up. You don't know when to give up. That is an issue in itself.

            and now at such a small level that I cannot avoid upsetting him, for example, playing part of a song on guitar. I keep tripping up and hurting him because these things are so small that I am bound to fail.
            You're not "tripping up" you're living your life and he's a controlling, jealous, anxiety ridden emotional abuser. You don't give d-bags like that a second chance. You get yourself away from them when they start making you walk on egg shells like he is making you do.

            You have codependency issues, Pot. Time for you to address those and let him sink in his own mental issues if he's not willing to get his own personal therapy. One should NEVER allow themselves to be totally lost in another like you've allowed yourself to be lost in him.
            "First off, welcome to the Relationship Forums, You'll come to understand that I don't pull any punches when giving my opinion/advice and I hope you're not so sensitive to what I see as the truth of the matter." Me!

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Maggiemay4791 View Post

              What???
              All relationships start without love. Romantic relationships start generally with passion , sometimes intimacy as yours did.
              I am starting to think that neither of you actually love each other, it's more infatuous love or something else.

              Google Sternbergs triangular theory of love.

              Love has nothing to do with the success of a relationship, a mother can love a child and still not have a successful relationship with him /her.
              Love doesn't enable compromise. Respect and committment do.

              Look at how many successful arranged marriages there are.
              And the high divorce rate amongst others.

              I wouldnt bother with counselling 6 months in and I sense that Phases only suggested it so that you would get a professional to tell you that you are incompatible and then perhaps believe it?

              Why are you so adamant to make a crumbling short lived relationship work??!
              How long were you with your ex?
              There is something amiss here!
              I see your point. However, I could also give many examples where love has enabled a relationship to be successful through difficult times. It's not cut and dry and I'm not arguing that. But completely dismissing it isn't right either - do respect and commitment not come from love? Does love not enable relationships to work that would otherwise fail, for example, helping someone through a drug addiction?

              I was with my ex for just over 2 years. I don't really see how that is important. What do you mean by there being something amiss?

              I am adamant to try and make this work because I care deeply for this person and I believe that I can live the life I want with him. I haven't had that with anyone else; we are highly compatible in other ways and this problem deserves some effort to resolve. I appreciate that you may find that hypocritical but there is compromise and I am willing to compromise, for example on relationship boundaries, for the other positive things that this relationship can offer to both of us. Relationships are hard and I accept that. I am not the sort of person to just throw a partner away and look for another one, especially for a mental problem that I think can be resolved with time and care. I have had my own mental problems and I wouldn't be here today if people had given up on me, so perhaps I am more willing to devote energy to resolving them.

              Maybe asking advice on here wasn't the best thing to do. I am only trying to get some insights about how to help my partner from this point forward and how we can work at this together. I wasn't really asking for an analysis of how shitty the situation is. I do feel that some facts have potentially been misunderstood and emotions obviously play an important role; you can't get really get those down on a forum.

              Everyone is being very negative - that's OK I guess, but it would be really helpful to hear some positive ways to deal with this instead of hearing that I should just give up and find someone else. Perhaps I am overly sensitive but as I said, I just wanted some positive advice. Maybe I am just going through the same thing as I did with my ex and putting energy into a failed relationship but as I said we both feel very strongly for each other and that should count for something.

              Comment


              • #22
                for example, helping someone through a drug addiction?
                Sorry, but are you for real? YOU can't help him with his mental issues just as YOU can't "help" someone through a drug addiction if they are not in treatment.

                Have you been in an abusive relationship before? Has either your mother or father been addicted or mentally compromised as you were growing up?

                There is a difference between caregiving and the dysfunctional and codependent caretaking which you're currently embroiled in.

                I am willing to compromise, for example on relationship boundaries, for the other positive things that this relationship can offer to both of us.
                You fail to realize that yes, YOU are willing to compromise but he is UNABLE to. He needs extensive therapy. At the very least he needs to be on anti anxiety medication to start with. He needs to see his doctor who will refer him and if he won't do that without you being his mother about it, then you're wasting all your good intentions because this is about HIM, and what he must do and NOT what you can to for him.
                Last edited by phasesofthemoon; April 16th, 2018, 11:45 AM.
                "First off, welcome to the Relationship Forums, You'll come to understand that I don't pull any punches when giving my opinion/advice and I hope you're not so sensitive to what I see as the truth of the matter." Me!

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by phasesofthemoon View Post
                  Sorry, but are you for real? YOU can't help him with his mental issues just as YOU can't "help" someone through a drug addiction if they are not in treatment.

                  Have you been in an abusive relationship before? Has either your mother or father been addicted or mentally compromised as you were growing up?

                  There is a difference between caregiving and the dysfunctional and codependent [B]caretaking which you're currently embroiled in.

                  You fail to realize that yes, YOU are willing to compromise but he is UNABLE to. He needs extensive therapy. At the very least he needs to be on anti anxiety medication to start with. He needs to see his doctor who will refer him and if he won't do that without you being his mother about it, then you're wasting all your good intentions because this is about HIM, and what he must do and NOT what you can to for him.
                  I meant by that first comment that people can help someone through difficult times, when that may cause the love-giver to suffer, because they love them. I'm just trying to make a point that love is important in a relationship and can help people overcome difficult times, that's all.

                  Maybe I do have codependence issues. I was unable to leave my past relationship for a long time because I was afraid of the consequences for both of us - he had suddenly lost his parents and I was afraid of being alone during a difficult time for me. I understand this, however, this current relationship is not simply about my codependence issues (as you seem to think that it is) and I do not have any fear of leaving. I simply don't want to leave because I see many positives in him that I haven't had with other people, to which I give enormous value because of what they mean for my life goals and ambitions, and because again, I see this as something that could be worked through. If in a reasonable amount of time this is still happening then yes, it will be time to leave. However, everyone seems to be saying that this is a lost cause. I don't see a mental problem as a lost cause.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by pot plant View Post

                    I meant by that first comment that people can help someone through difficult times, when that may cause the love-giver to suffer, because they love them. I'm just trying to make a point that love is important in a relationship and can help people overcome difficult times, that's all.

                    Maybe I do have codependence issues. I was unable to leave my past relationship for a long time because I was afraid of the consequences for both of us - he had suddenly lost his parents and I was afraid of being alone during a difficult time for me. I understand this, however, this current relationship is not simply about my codependence issues (as you seem to think that it is) and I do not have any fear of leaving. I simply don't want to leave because I see many positives in him that I haven't had with other people, to which I give enormous value because of what they mean for my life goals and ambitions, and because again, I see this as something that could be worked through. If in a reasonable amount of time this is still happening then yes, it will be time to leave. However, everyone seems to be saying that this is a lost cause. I don't see a mental problem as a lost cause.
                    A mental problem is a lost cause when the sufferer relies on another to keep them afloat rather than acknowledge AND fix it through therapy while single.
                    Yes something was amiss and now you have revealed that.
                    You think you wouldn't be here if people had given up on you?!!
                    You are relying on the wrong people.
                    You clearly have not had therapy for your own issues as you said you don't know how it works in the uk .

                    You cannot HELP him.
                    But you can help yourself.
                    Get yourself into therapy for trying to be the white knight while ignoring your own issues .

                    The people you relied on that didn't "give up" on you are no longer in your life. So no , they didn't successfully "help" you.
                    They just enabled you to be where you are now. Square one.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Maggiemay4791 View Post

                      A mental problem is a lost cause when the sufferer relies on another to keep them afloat rather than acknowledge AND fix it through therapy while single.
                      Yes something was amiss and now you have revealed that.
                      You think you wouldn't be here if people had given up on you?!!
                      You are relying on the wrong people.
                      You clearly have not had therapy for your own issues as you said you don't know how it works in the uk .

                      You cannot HELP him.
                      But you can help yourself.
                      Get yourself into therapy for trying to be the white knight while ignoring your own issues .

                      The people you relied on that didn't "give up" on you are no longer in your life. So no , they didn't successfully "help" you.
                      They just enabled you to be where you are now. Square one.
                      Sorry but you are completely wrong about me. I understand the system for mental health and I have had successful treatment for several issues and am a better person because of it. I said I do not fully understand the system for relationship counseling, which is a different system here in the UK under the NHS.

                      The people who didn't give up on me are my friends and family who supported me through my depression. I am not at square one - you clearly do not understand mental health problems and how they can and should be supported. A person with a mental health problem may not realise, or accept, that they are at fault, and they will be unable to help themselves at times because of their inability to be detached from their related emotions. This is why external support and understanding is so important. And yes, therapy is important. But what is most important is support and kindness from the people that you love - as his partner, I am one of those people. You've made it clear that you are actually the one who doesn't understand mental health by defining him as a lost cause.

                      I am not 'ignoring my own issues'. I have just said that the issue that I am bringing forward - my partner's behaviour and my willingness to help this relationship - is unrelated to any of my issues that I have identified. In fact, I think I am being very reasonable and proactive in my efforts to work at a relationship that I value. I have taken reasonable steps to deal with issues from my side, and am seeking advice as to how to help my partner. If people cannot give that - which was the point of my posting - then perhaps they shouldn't be commenting. They certainly shouldn't be making comments and assumptions about my mental health, family and friends.

                      I have never said that he hasn't acknowledged his problem. He is not adverse to getting therapy. Again, I was simply asking for advice on how to help him overcome this. If I can't help, fine. But some of the suggestions to simply break up and move on, plus the derogatory comments against him, aren't helpful or what I asked for.

                      As I have repeatedly said, I've come here for some advice, not an argument. If that cannot be given in a positive and constructive way, then I do not find your comments helpful. Again, I have come here for help, that is all.

                      I appreciate that people are entitled to their views but please be respectful - you are talking to a real person here.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        However, everyone seems to be saying that this is a lost cause. I don't see a mental problem as a lost cause.
                        It is a lost cause as long as he's not in treatment. THAT is what you fail to accept. The difference between you and your partner is that you were in treatment as your friends and family supported you through it. He's doing fuck all to get better and is just expecting you to do all the changing to accommodate his psychosis, and anxiety issues.

                        You are enabling him to be the person that you are trying to change. That's not being supportive, that's being selfish and controlling and codependent.

                        Have you asked him to look into seeing his doctor for advice and the appropriate referrals to get him started on working on his recovery? If you haven't then what are you waiting for? The longer you try to careTAKE him into being the man that you want him to be, the longer it is he will emotionally abuse you and remain the sick man that he is.

                        If people cannot give that - which was the point of my posting - then perhaps they shouldn't be commenting.
                        What? You don't want us to point out that what you're doing isn't helping him to change in the least? In fact, what you are trying to do is simply enabling him to be who he is.

                        You are in denial and you think your devotion and walking on eggshells and being the only one to change is going to help your relationship when all it is doing is stagnating it in the very thing you don't want.

                        I'll repeat... get (back?) into your own therapy right now and for the time being, forget about trying to fix him and instead work on the only person you have the ability to fix and that's you.

                        Talk to a professional about this so that hopefully, you will emerge out of your denial.
                        Last edited by phasesofthemoon; April 16th, 2018, 01:47 PM.
                        "First off, welcome to the Relationship Forums, You'll come to understand that I don't pull any punches when giving my opinion/advice and I hope you're not so sensitive to what I see as the truth of the matter." Me!

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                        • #27
                          This "flagging" business on edit is as annoying as fuck. Who does one have to blow to get it removed?
                          "First off, welcome to the Relationship Forums, You'll come to understand that I don't pull any punches when giving my opinion/advice and I hope you're not so sensitive to what I see as the truth of the matter." Me!

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            *^^^ apologizes for frustrated outburst*

                            Also, why does it seem to only happen when there are no mods online? Do you guys turn it on when you log off or something? Inquiring minds and all.
                            "First off, welcome to the Relationship Forums, You'll come to understand that I don't pull any punches when giving my opinion/advice and I hope you're not so sensitive to what I see as the truth of the matter." Me!

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              When I go offline, I set it to 'Flag Phases.'



                              I'll forward your generous offer to OSD.
                              Last edited by SarahLancaster; April 16th, 2018, 02:16 PM.
                              "What lips my lips have kissed and where and why I have forgotten." ~Edna St. Vincent Millay

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by SarahLancaster View Post
                                When I go offline, I set it to 'Flag Phases.'



                                I'll forward your generous offer to OSD.
                                Sarcasm noted. lolzzz

                                Please do something about it though.. It's maddening.

                                "First off, welcome to the Relationship Forums, You'll come to understand that I don't pull any punches when giving my opinion/advice and I hope you're not so sensitive to what I see as the truth of the matter." Me!

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