Members: 15,335
Threads: 37,877
Posts: 403,911
Online: 53

Newest Member: andrew0101


Go Back   The Relationship Forums > The Relationship > Down in the Dumps

Notices

Down in the Dumps Breaking up is a difficult time. How does it go? Denial, Anger, acceptance? No... that's not it. Come to this forum to find out what it's really like.

Reply
Thread Tools
Unread April 3rd, 2011, 09:18 PM   #1
Nightmares Come True
New Member
 
Join Date: April 3rd, 2011
Location: Texas
Posts: 5
Gender: Male
Status: It's currently complicated
Nightmares Come True is on a distinguished road
Default Dire need of assistance

I am new to this forum, because I need help. I also need an outlet to vent, so if this is the wrong place to post this, I apologize ahead of time.

I have been with the same girl for almost 2.5 years. We have previously talked about marriage, as well as future events. We have lived together for....roughly two years I suppose. And we have a 14 month old daughter, whom we both absolutely adore. We fight like any other couple does, and we tend to hash things out pretty quickly. Before going into detail, I need to give information about us, and our personalities.

I am a laid-back, easy going kind of person, I am patient, persuasive, often manipulative(not always on purpose), I am financially irresponsible, people tend to like me more than dislike, I am the go to guy, I am quiet, I know when to shut the hell up and when I need to run my mouth, I play WoW but live a completely healthy social life/family life outside of it(so I believe), I am usually calm and collected, I am very open minded, it takes alot to anger me, I am not violent in the slightest, I normally take rude comments/shots/jokes without a word and walk away, I second guess myself alot, so it stands to reason that I am often the bitch in the relationship, and I am absolutely smitten by my girlfriend and daughter.

now to my significant other, she is forward and controlling, quick to anger, and quick to judge without complete knowledge of the facts, she is also open-minded(but at the same time not), she walks away from something she doesnt want to hear(my experience with alot of girls. She also cut off all contact with her sister for 1.5 years because they got into a little hissy fit), she is very independent, she wont admit when she is wrong most of the time, she is often lazy(but she does have fybromyalgia and Mieniers disease), she is an outstanding mother and when she chooses to, a 'housewife', she was raised by her mother and grandmother(who are also INCREDIBLY controlling, obviously where she gets it from), she never stands up for me when being 'brought down' by anybody, especially her mother grandma, and rarely stands up for herself to them, we are currently financially dependent on them, but we have our own apartment.

DETAILS: So considering all of the above stated, our money, like many others, is in short supply, but we are currently completely dependent on her mother. I like most other people make mistakes, as does she. She would get on to me over the course of the last 2.5 years about things I need to do or not do, especially since we have a child. I have personally sacrificed almost everything I enjoy for our family. I quit smoking cigarettes(now 4 months clean). I have all but quit drinking. I never go out anymore(to friends or the bar, etc.) And I used to play Magic The Gathering, I quit shortly after the baby was born. Basically I am trying to be as much a family man as I can.

Then, she started complaining about me not doing enough around the house/helping with the baby/etc. I now watch the baby when she goes out to run errands or with her family, if I can, I wake up early to watch her so my SO can sleep in. I also do (literally)99% of the housework. I get groceries, and cook when I can to try and make the load as easy for her as I can.

With this years income tax, we got a huge return, and we where able to pay off all our bills, and still have plenty of money left. As stated above, I am financially irresponsible and I am TERRIBLE with money(though over the last 4 months I have gotten better). She wants me to hand over all of my paychecks as soon as I get them so I dont spend it. SHe also wants me to ask before I buy ANYTHING. But I dont get the same respect, and she doesnt limit herself to an allowance like me.(to be fair, she is good with money and doesnt often waste it). We have never set down and made a budget.

THE PROBLEM: After all this, and all my sacrifices I decided with all this extra money left over, I wanted to retain something I used to do, that isnt destructive or going to ruin us. So I went, and without asking, spent $164 on Magic The Gathering cards. On the way home, I realized that was STUPID, but couldnt return them by this point, and I started freaking out. When I got home, I immediately told her what I had done, and gave her all of my money I had, easily more than what I spent. I did not purposely omit the total of what I spent, but I didnt tell her. I was freaking out, either way it was bad to me. Anywho, 2 days later she went online to the bank account and saw that, and asked me about it, and I again told her. She immediately became furious, and told me that she cannot trust me and to give her my key, and kicked me out. So for the last 3 days I have been stuck sitting outside, and crashing on friends couches. She says she is willing to work it out(then takes it back, then says it again, etc), but it will take ALONG TIME. She has not taken my feelings into consideration(I dont think). What am I supposed to do, I dont make enough to afford my own place, and its difficult to find a roommate. The only thing I want is her and my daughter, I want our family. I personally think that this has been blown way out of proportion. I will admit I messed up and made a mistake, but I dont think it should have escalated to this. So right now, I am crashing at my friends apartment on his couch....who get this.....is married to my girlfriends sister!!!( I introduced them). And they tell each other everything, its awfully awkward sometimes.

She believes I havent grown up enough, and I am to immature. But what else can I possibly do?? When is enough, enough? When is this going to turn into a give and take relationship, and not just a take? Why am I the only one sacrificing and changing? What can I do to show her that I am for real, and that I want our family? Any advice would be appreciated asap. I love my girlfriend and my daughter, and they are all I want in this world.
Nightmares Come True is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread April 3rd, 2011, 09:23 PM   #2
foh4k
Elite Romantic
 
foh4k's Avatar
 
Join Date: September 18th, 2010
Location: State of Confusion
Posts: 8,046
Gender: Male
Status: Content, happy, and living a wonderful life
foh4k has a reputation beyond reputefoh4k has a reputation beyond reputefoh4k has a reputation beyond reputefoh4k has a reputation beyond reputefoh4k has a reputation beyond reputefoh4k has a reputation beyond reputefoh4k has a reputation beyond reputefoh4k has a reputation beyond reputefoh4k has a reputation beyond reputefoh4k has a reputation beyond reputefoh4k has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Dire need of assistance

Get a job.

A lot of this will change
__________________
There is overwhelming evidence that the higher the level of self-esteem, the more likely one will treat others with respect, kindness, and generosity. People who do not experience self-love have little or no capacity to love others.
foh4k is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread April 3rd, 2011, 09:28 PM   #3
Nightmares Come True
New Member
 
Join Date: April 3rd, 2011
Location: Texas
Posts: 5
Gender: Male
Status: It's currently complicated
Nightmares Come True is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Dire need of assistance

I have a job.
Nightmares Come True is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread April 3rd, 2011, 09:43 PM   #4
phasesofthemoon
I'm not a moderator yet?
 
phasesofthemoon's Avatar
 
Join Date: February 21st, 2010
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 11,895
Gender: Female
Status: Happily connected for many years ! Oh, and glad I'm not a Moderator :D
phasesofthemoon has a reputation beyond reputephasesofthemoon has a reputation beyond reputephasesofthemoon has a reputation beyond reputephasesofthemoon has a reputation beyond reputephasesofthemoon has a reputation beyond reputephasesofthemoon has a reputation beyond reputephasesofthemoon has a reputation beyond reputephasesofthemoon has a reputation beyond reputephasesofthemoon has a reputation beyond reputephasesofthemoon has a reputation beyond reputephasesofthemoon has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Dire need of assistance

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightmares Come True View Post
I have a job.
Yes, and if you want to keep your one big "happy" family then I suggest you just wait it out until the dictator you call a girlfriend settles down from her snit and takes you back with a stern warning to never do anything with the money you've worked hard for AGAIN.

Dude, you've made your bed now you have to learn to sleep in it. She is a domineering, control freak of whom you knew for a mere 5 months before you moved in together. You now know who she is and it aint pretty.

Be the "yes dear" man and just follow her instructions if you love her and your baby dearly. If you can't do that, then leave and continue to love your daughter dearly while you have custody of her every other weekend at your own place.

Without loads of couples councelling to show her that she's a battle axe.. she isn't going to change. Take her as is or leave her now.

Do you think if you had gotten to know her better, longer than 5 short months and she didn't get pregnant that you would have moved in with her knowing what she was really like? If you say yes to that question.. then you better learn to be a good boy.
__________________
"First off, welcome to the Relationship Forums, You'll come to understand that I don't pull any punches when giving my opinion/advice and I hope you're not so sensitive to what I see as the truth of the matter." Me!
phasesofthemoon is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread April 3rd, 2011, 10:02 PM   #5
Nightmares Come True
New Member
 
Join Date: April 3rd, 2011
Location: Texas
Posts: 5
Gender: Male
Status: It's currently complicated
Nightmares Come True is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Dire need of assistance

Lol, well that is insightful. I do think that I probably would have continued to be with her, even without the baby. She is usually really good to me(when I dont fuck up :P). She has done many good things for me, and helped me out with things. She also has stated that even if worse came to worst, she wouldnt deny me my daughter ever, that I could see her anytime I choose, and that she wouldnt seek child support. (of course, I would continue to support my child anyway, the best I could.) I do love her, with all my heart, I just want our relationship to be as fair as we can make it.
Nightmares Come True is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread April 3rd, 2011, 10:51 PM   #6
Fusion Cuisine
St. Valentines
 
Join Date: January 26th, 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 1,503
Gender: Male
Status: Foot in mouth and head up ass-hole
Fusion Cuisine has a reputation beyond reputeFusion Cuisine has a reputation beyond reputeFusion Cuisine has a reputation beyond reputeFusion Cuisine has a reputation beyond reputeFusion Cuisine has a reputation beyond reputeFusion Cuisine has a reputation beyond reputeFusion Cuisine has a reputation beyond reputeFusion Cuisine has a reputation beyond reputeFusion Cuisine has a reputation beyond reputeFusion Cuisine has a reputation beyond reputeFusion Cuisine has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Dire need of assistance

Do you have any opportunities to increase your earnings in the not too distant future?

You might behave a bit like a kid because she treats you like one and expects it of you. But she's probably more immature if she thinks it's okay to kick the father of her child out onto the street over something like this with no notice.

Whatever happens, things will be much better if you can stand on your own two feet more - don't wait to go crawling back to her on her terms, or this situation will never change. And I dunno about you, but I kinda like knowing where I'll be sleeping.

And don't trot out something like "I'm financially irresponsible; I can't help it", because while you may have been in the past, I really don't believe it's not in your power to change things. It's about motivation - empower yourself as a man and take control - it's no wonder you lack direction if your main motivator is not being treated like a naughty little boy (albeit with a more severe punishment than usual). Motivate yourself and change the things it is within your power to change.

Last edited by Fusion Cuisine; April 3rd, 2011 at 11:16 PM.. Reason: Duplicated word
Fusion Cuisine is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread April 3rd, 2011, 11:14 PM   #7
foh4k
Elite Romantic
 
foh4k's Avatar
 
Join Date: September 18th, 2010
Location: State of Confusion
Posts: 8,046
Gender: Male
Status: Content, happy, and living a wonderful life
foh4k has a reputation beyond reputefoh4k has a reputation beyond reputefoh4k has a reputation beyond reputefoh4k has a reputation beyond reputefoh4k has a reputation beyond reputefoh4k has a reputation beyond reputefoh4k has a reputation beyond reputefoh4k has a reputation beyond reputefoh4k has a reputation beyond reputefoh4k has a reputation beyond reputefoh4k has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Dire need of assistance

Good luck, that little battle of idealization of you and then the subsequent devaluing of you will beat you down sooner or later. It's much much worse later.

As FC says be a man. In all aspects of this situation.
__________________
There is overwhelming evidence that the higher the level of self-esteem, the more likely one will treat others with respect, kindness, and generosity. People who do not experience self-love have little or no capacity to love others.
foh4k is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread April 4th, 2011, 11:37 AM   #8
mrchris
New Member
 
Join Date: February 2nd, 2011
Posts: 20
mrchris has a spectacular aura aboutmrchris has a spectacular aura about
Default Re: Dire need of assistance

you need to grow up dude
mrchris is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread April 4th, 2011, 11:56 AM   #9
phasesofthemoon
I'm not a moderator yet?
 
phasesofthemoon's Avatar
 
Join Date: February 21st, 2010
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 11,895
Gender: Female
Status: Happily connected for many years ! Oh, and glad I'm not a Moderator :D
phasesofthemoon has a reputation beyond reputephasesofthemoon has a reputation beyond reputephasesofthemoon has a reputation beyond reputephasesofthemoon has a reputation beyond reputephasesofthemoon has a reputation beyond reputephasesofthemoon has a reputation beyond reputephasesofthemoon has a reputation beyond reputephasesofthemoon has a reputation beyond reputephasesofthemoon has a reputation beyond reputephasesofthemoon has a reputation beyond reputephasesofthemoon has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Dire need of assistance

You know, this "man up" stuff I don't agree with ALL of the time. There are lots and lots of men out there that are quite content to be the follower, the beta, the "doer" and not the "teller what to do" in very successful and happy relationships. These men are most just content to be instructed. Occassionally (like in Op's case) they "stray" from the rules and do something to test the waters so to speak but, mostly they are quite content to have things taken care of by the little woman. I think that's the case with our esteemed Opening Poster.

Granted, I think Op's partner's punishment far out shone the actual crime, but I'm sure they'll work that out. Op just needs to be a bit more assertive when it comes right down to it and let his wife know that whats she's done is akin to emotional abuse and if she can't talk things out, come to conflict resolution without kicking his ass out, then he'll have to re-assess the entire relationship and decide whether he's better off out and away from her all together.

OP: Next time, tell her you're not going anywhere and then start with the conflict resolution dialogue. It's your home too ya know.
__________________
"First off, welcome to the Relationship Forums, You'll come to understand that I don't pull any punches when giving my opinion/advice and I hope you're not so sensitive to what I see as the truth of the matter." Me!
phasesofthemoon is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread April 4th, 2011, 02:07 PM   #10
foh4k
Elite Romantic
 
foh4k's Avatar
 
Join Date: September 18th, 2010
Location: State of Confusion
Posts: 8,046
Gender: Male
Status: Content, happy, and living a wonderful life
foh4k has a reputation beyond reputefoh4k has a reputation beyond reputefoh4k has a reputation beyond reputefoh4k has a reputation beyond reputefoh4k has a reputation beyond reputefoh4k has a reputation beyond reputefoh4k has a reputation beyond reputefoh4k has a reputation beyond reputefoh4k has a reputation beyond reputefoh4k has a reputation beyond reputefoh4k has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Dire need of assistance

Well in my case i didn't mean he needs to supercede any roles already established as to who is the leader who is the follower I just meant stand up for yourself in all aspects of his life.

he wants to follow her lead so be it. Makes no never mind but don't give up your self respect and dignity to be a follower.

All is well point is duly noted Phase.
__________________
There is overwhelming evidence that the higher the level of self-esteem, the more likely one will treat others with respect, kindness, and generosity. People who do not experience self-love have little or no capacity to love others.
foh4k is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread April 4th, 2011, 02:29 PM   #11
Fusion Cuisine
St. Valentines
 
Join Date: January 26th, 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 1,503
Gender: Male
Status: Foot in mouth and head up ass-hole
Fusion Cuisine has a reputation beyond reputeFusion Cuisine has a reputation beyond reputeFusion Cuisine has a reputation beyond reputeFusion Cuisine has a reputation beyond reputeFusion Cuisine has a reputation beyond reputeFusion Cuisine has a reputation beyond reputeFusion Cuisine has a reputation beyond reputeFusion Cuisine has a reputation beyond reputeFusion Cuisine has a reputation beyond reputeFusion Cuisine has a reputation beyond reputeFusion Cuisine has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Dire need of assistance

I also didn't mean 'man up' (my actual words: "empower yourself as a man") in terms of the roles he takes in the relationship, like he should get 'alpha male' on her ass; I didn't mean 'man up' as opposed to him being too feminine or something. I meant man as opposed to boy. She treats him like a kid she has no responsibilities towards, and he accepts this and it's pretty much how he views himself. I've re-read my post and that's pretty obvious, and I really don't see how it could be taken as "Da ALPHA man leads his bitch!" or something.

She'll treat him like a kid until he stops letting her. That means he has to take some control of his own shit, because while there's the 'thrown out of the house with nowhere to go' thing hanging over his psyche, he's never going to become assertive enough to have a reasonably functional relationship with this woman.
Fusion Cuisine is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread April 4th, 2011, 02:48 PM   #12
phasesofthemoon
I'm not a moderator yet?
 
phasesofthemoon's Avatar
 
Join Date: February 21st, 2010
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 11,895
Gender: Female
Status: Happily connected for many years ! Oh, and glad I'm not a Moderator :D
phasesofthemoon has a reputation beyond reputephasesofthemoon has a reputation beyond reputephasesofthemoon has a reputation beyond reputephasesofthemoon has a reputation beyond reputephasesofthemoon has a reputation beyond reputephasesofthemoon has a reputation beyond reputephasesofthemoon has a reputation beyond reputephasesofthemoon has a reputation beyond reputephasesofthemoon has a reputation beyond reputephasesofthemoon has a reputation beyond reputephasesofthemoon has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Dire need of assistance

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fusion Cuisine View Post
I also didn't mean 'man up' (my actual words: "empower yourself as a man") in terms of the roles he takes in the relationship, like he should get 'alpha male' on her ass; I didn't mean 'man up' as opposed to him being too feminine or something. I meant man as opposed to boy. She treats him like a kid she has no responsibilities towards, and he accepts this and it's pretty much how he views himself. I've re-read my post and that's pretty obvious, and I really don't see how it could be taken as "Da ALPHA man leads his bitch!" or something.
yes, I based my post on what you meant as stated here in this post. I still think that some men are quite content to be "handled" for lack of a better word and I get the impression that he doesn't mind too much being treated like kid however; (like most kids) he doesn't like all the rules and will balk against too much show of authority.

She'll treat him like a kid until he stops letting her. That means he has to take some control of his own shit, because while there's the 'thrown out of the house with nowhere to go' thing hanging over his psyche, he's never going to become assertive enough to have a reasonably functional relationship with this woman.[/quote]

Yes, I agree that he needs to ramp up the voicing of his rights as part of a team and not let her throw him out of his own home. It was after all his first indiscretion (in her opinion) and she appears to be too "battle-axy" in their personal realtionship dynamic, IMO.
__________________
"First off, welcome to the Relationship Forums, You'll come to understand that I don't pull any punches when giving my opinion/advice and I hope you're not so sensitive to what I see as the truth of the matter." Me!
phasesofthemoon is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread April 4th, 2011, 02:51 PM   #13
phasesofthemoon
I'm not a moderator yet?
 
phasesofthemoon's Avatar
 
Join Date: February 21st, 2010
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 11,895
Gender: Female
Status: Happily connected for many years ! Oh, and glad I'm not a Moderator :D
phasesofthemoon has a reputation beyond reputephasesofthemoon has a reputation beyond reputephasesofthemoon has a reputation beyond reputephasesofthemoon has a reputation beyond reputephasesofthemoon has a reputation beyond reputephasesofthemoon has a reputation beyond reputephasesofthemoon has a reputation beyond reputephasesofthemoon has a reputation beyond reputephasesofthemoon has a reputation beyond reputephasesofthemoon has a reputation beyond reputephasesofthemoon has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Dire need of assistance

Quote:
Originally Posted by foh4k View Post
Well in my case i didn't mean he needs to supercede any roles already established as to who is the leader who is the follower I just meant stand up for yourself in all aspects of his life.

he wants to follow her lead so be it. Makes no never mind but don't give up your self respect and dignity to be a follower.

All is well point is duly noted Phase.
As was yours as well, Foh. As mentioned I think he needs to be a little more assertive. However.. I also think he's quite content with mostly giving her the lead. They just need to work out a few of the kinks is all.
__________________
"First off, welcome to the Relationship Forums, You'll come to understand that I don't pull any punches when giving my opinion/advice and I hope you're not so sensitive to what I see as the truth of the matter." Me!
phasesofthemoon is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread April 4th, 2011, 03:41 PM   #14
craven
New Member
 
Join Date: March 31st, 2011
Location: viginia
Posts: 23
Gender: Male
Status: Time will tell...
craven is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Dire need of assistance

Dude ,how about you train yourself to be more responsible with money and slowly she will share the reigns with you and you guys can equally be in charge of finances. Dont make this more difficult than it is man.
craven is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread April 4th, 2011, 06:27 PM   #15
Nightmares Come True
New Member
 
Join Date: April 3rd, 2011
Location: Texas
Posts: 5
Gender: Male
Status: It's currently complicated
Nightmares Come True is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Dire need of assistance

I do need to be more assertive, I am not one to argue or stand up for myself unless its really bad. I am a charmer, so I tend to talk my way out of most confrontations.

The thing that pisses me off the most, is that she lets her mom and grandmother take shots at me, and she wont stand up for me, she just agrees. And all the shit isnt true either. Like, we have a pet cat. And her mom thinks it is my cat, that I went and got the cat and took it home, and now I dont wanna take care of it. NOT THE FUCKING TRUTH. That is her cat, she looked for days online and found it, went and picked it up, and now I am the 95% caretaker of that animal. And yet she still lets them believe that I am the lazy fuck up who doesnt do anything. That shit pisses me off so much.
Nightmares Come True is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread April 4th, 2011, 06:35 PM   #16
phasesofthemoon
I'm not a moderator yet?
 
phasesofthemoon's Avatar
 
Join Date: February 21st, 2010
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 11,895
Gender: Female
Status: Happily connected for many years ! Oh, and glad I'm not a Moderator :D
phasesofthemoon has a reputation beyond reputephasesofthemoon has a reputation beyond reputephasesofthemoon has a reputation beyond reputephasesofthemoon has a reputation beyond reputephasesofthemoon has a reputation beyond reputephasesofthemoon has a reputation beyond reputephasesofthemoon has a reputation beyond reputephasesofthemoon has a reputation beyond reputephasesofthemoon has a reputation beyond reputephasesofthemoon has a reputation beyond reputephasesofthemoon has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Dire need of assistance

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightmares Come True View Post
I do need to be more assertive, I am not one to argue or stand up for myself unless its really bad. I am a charmer, so I tend to talk my way out of most confrontations.

The thing that pisses me off the most, is that she lets her mom and grandmother take shots at me, and she wont stand up for me, she just agrees. And all the shit isnt true either. Like, we have a pet cat. And her mom thinks it is my cat, that I went and got the cat and took it home, and now I dont wanna take care of it. NOT THE FUCKING TRUTH. That is her cat, she looked for days online and found it, went and picked it up, and now I am the 95% caretaker of that animal. And yet she still lets them believe that I am the lazy fuck up who doesnt do anything. That shit pisses me off so much.
I'm thinking that would piss even Jesus off. What do you say to this gaggle of domineering women when they are on the attack and it's not the truth. I tend to laugh (sometimes silently to myself and sometimes blatantly in front of them) at people who are delusional like that.. what's your strategy for handling that kind of whackiness?
__________________
"First off, welcome to the Relationship Forums, You'll come to understand that I don't pull any punches when giving my opinion/advice and I hope you're not so sensitive to what I see as the truth of the matter." Me!
phasesofthemoon is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread April 4th, 2011, 07:09 PM   #17
Nightmares Come True
New Member
 
Join Date: April 3rd, 2011
Location: Texas
Posts: 5
Gender: Male
Status: It's currently complicated
Nightmares Come True is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Dire need of assistance

Lol I wish I knew. Anybody?
Nightmares Come True is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
advice, family, love

Thread Tools



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:50 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Contents © 2005 The Relationship Forums. All rights reserved.
A vBSkinworks Design