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Unread February 24th, 2012, 10:18 AM   #1
LadyRedd
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Default Swinging and the relationship

I have been married not quite a year yet. My husband was married previously and told me that the marriage ended because she was an alcoholic who refused help. He had been divorced 4 years when I met him. We had experimented with going to a swing club in the area a few months ago with the rules of just watching others and being watched, not touching anyone else but each other. He claimed that he had gone there once with the ex wife but they did nothing with anyone else. I enjoyed our experience there as I am both a voyeur and an exhibitionist, but I have no desire to be with someone other then my husband or have him be with someone else.

Just recently he confessed to me that there were alot more women in his past that he did not tell me about. There were alot of one night stands, he said he led a very risky and hollow life. Before this confession he had said there were 2 serious girlfriends between the ex wife and me and a few dates, but said he had only slept with the girlfriends. I suspected there was more to his story and pushed until he finally confessed that he and the ex wife used to swing, for about 2 years during their marriage. Full swap swinging, him with other women, her with other men, him with her and another woman. For some reason that alone crushed me. He said that he had no emotional connection to the wife, therefore he didn't care what she did, it was all purely physical. He also claims that he has never felt an emotional connection with someone like he does with me and now understands the difference of "making love" and just having raw sex with someone. He claims that it would drive him insane if another man touched me and that he has no desire to be with another woman because of his emotional connection to me.

But I'm having alot of difficulties with "letting it go"... for some reason I am comparing myself to this ex wife and his enjoyment with her and think that I can't please him. At the same time, I'm disgusted to think that he enjoyed what he did with this woman (I have an intense hatred towards this woman right now because of this, my insecurities are manifesting into hatred for her). I'm also finding myself not being able to trust him now, whereas before I had no problems trusting what he told me. I don't think he'll cheat on me, or that he's hanging out in bars trying to pick up women when he's not with me, but I have a "trust" thing going on that I can't quite put my finger on. I am seeing a therapist and we are working on my obsessive thoughts (I continue to think about what he did in the past and how he enjoyed it and how I can't measure up).

How do you trust someone again? I feel betrayed but really am not sure why... all of this happened before I even met him, over 6 years ago. Thanks for any advice, I feel like I'm stuck at a roadblock that I can't find a way around.
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Unread February 24th, 2012, 10:37 AM   #2
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Default Re: Swinging and the relationship

Quote:
How do you trust someone again? I feel betrayed but really am not sure why...
of course you no why you feel betrayed, you're just in denial is all. This man you are married to did a total bait and switch on you, lied through his teeth to your face to make himself look less of a philanderer, used excuses of not having an emotiona connection to his wife (did you ask him why he married her then?) and now you've put your feelings of hate, confusion, mistrust, insecurity that HE has welled up in you onto his ex wife because it's just too hard for you to blame the man you love.

Newsflash: It take two to tango, doll and if you ever want to be happy and angst free with this man then you best be able to accept the actual truth of the matter and put your mind around the fact that you can't control him and if he's going to get sexual gratification elsewhere, there is absolutely NOTHING you can do to stop him so you might as well enjoy your time with him and let go and let god.

You misplace your hatred onto his wife because you wouldn't be able to tolerate your husband anymore if you put your hatred onto him (who is the right person to be hating since he lied to you and took away your free choice to either stay with him or leave him after knowing the truth about him).

Keep going to your therapy. Hopefully it will give you some peace of mind until/if the shit hits the fan and when/if he brings up to you that he'd like to swing with you too.

One day at a time, be at ease until/unless you have to be otherwise.
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Unread February 24th, 2012, 11:17 PM   #3
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Default Re: Swinging and the relationship

He claims he married her because he didn't think he deserved any better at the time. She was his second wife, his first being the mother of his child who belittled him and controlled him, and when he got out of that first marriage he went a bit wild with women. Within a years time he had 4 "relationships", various one night stands and ended up married to this wife. He says he never really loved her, it was purely a physical relationship.

I know my hatred is misplaced, I don't even know this woman. What I really hate is exactly what you said - he played me for a fool and took my free will to choose to stay or go before we got married. He said he was afraid I'd have left him, which I probably would have if I'd known before I fell in love with him.
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Unread February 24th, 2012, 11:50 PM   #4
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Default Re: Swinging and the relationship

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Originally Posted by LadyRedd View Post
He claims he married her because he didn't think he deserved any better at the time. She was his second wife, his first being the mother of his child who belittled him and controlled him, and when he got out of that first marriage he went a bit wild with women. Within a years time he had 4 "relationships", various one night stands and ended up married to this wife. He says he never really loved her, it was purely a physical relationship.

I know my hatred is misplaced, I don't even know this woman. What I really hate is exactly what you said - he played me for a fool and took my free will to choose to stay or go before we got married. He said he was afraid I'd have left him, which I probably would have if I'd known before I fell in love with him.
You said in your opening post that you went to a swingers club just to watch. Whose idea was it to go. Who first bought that up? You or him?

No need to answer here if you're uncomfortable doing so.

I'm curious if he's actually over that stage of his life all together or, he's just changed it up a bit and is slowly coaxing you into the lifestyle but because he "couldn't stand the thought of you with another man" he'll just invite a woman as your third???
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Unread February 25th, 2012, 02:01 AM   #5
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Default Re: Swinging and the relationship

It was actually my idea to go and the first thing he said was "as long as we aren't with other people, just you and me together". I had no interest in being with anyone else, man or woman, so that was fine by me. I was curious as to what the place was like and at that point I thought he'd only been once and didn't do anything while there. As far as I can tell he didn't engage in that after stopping it with the wife (he left her about 6 months after they stopped swinging). I have actually checked old bank statements and email accounts and found no swinging activity with girlfriends after his divorce (yes, I became so obsessed with the thoughts I hacked into an old email account. That behavior is what sent me to a therapist, I knew I was harming myself emotionally with the obsessive thoughts). He said the swinging was not a bonding experience like alot of swingers claim it is for them, it was more harmful and distancing in that relationship. He hasn't suggested me with another woman, in fact one woman did approach me while we were there and when she asked if we might be interested he politely told her no, we just wanted to watch others and be watched.

I think he truly regrets what he did in the past and is embarrassed by it. He too is going to a therapist separately although I don't ask him what they discuss. He has said though that he's learning alot about himself that he really doesn't like facing and is remembering things he's blocked. I think there is alot there that made him "shallow" in the past.

I'm just afraid that I won't be able to get the trust back completely because I have extreme self esteem issues. I have alot of work to do on myself but I'm willing to do it because I hate being in this emotional "limbo".
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Unread February 25th, 2012, 11:14 AM   #6
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Default Re: Swinging and the relationship

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Originally Posted by LadyRedd View Post
I think he truly regrets what he did in the past and is embarrassed by it. He too is going to a therapist separately although I don't ask him what they discuss. He has said though that he's learning alot about himself that he really doesn't like facing and is remembering things he's blocked. I think there is alot there that made him "shallow" in the past.
If you think that he truly regrets it then you being able to wrap your head around the concept of trusting him should come easily. I'm thinking too, that if he's getting therapy as well then that certainly indicates that his intentions to give up the lifestyle are sincere.

If he's not giving you any reason, no red flag actions to get your gut trying to warn you then you should do your best to accept that your angst is unwarranted. Even snooping didn't reveal anything.

Quote:
I'm just afraid that I won't be able to get the trust back completely because I have extreme self esteem issues. I have alot of work to do on myself but I'm willing to do it because I hate being in this emotional "limbo".
Good for you. There's nothing wrong with wanting to be right in the head and within your own thoughts. Everyone deserves to be in a happy, angst free relationship.

I'd say if you can't get past his past, then you'd be doing yourself a favor to leave that situtaion or your self-esteem will become even more fragile if you're constantly thinking the way you have been.

Maybe voyerism is your kink, but If I was thinking the way you're thinking and mis-trusting, then I'd think that frequenting a swingers club would be the last thing I'd be doing with my man. That's akin to a drug addict hanging out at a crack house for fun. That kinda thing rarely helps with one's "sobriety" so to speak. No?
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Unread February 25th, 2012, 04:35 PM   #7
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Default Re: Swinging and the relationship

Most definitely. We haven't been to that club since he made his confession to me, it's just something I can't do now, even if we are just there to watch.

He's given me no red flags. In fact he's even got rid of things he got when with her and other women, including a framed poster of a musician that was signed by the singer. He deleted all pictures of past trips with other women. He's done just about everything to erase his past and start memories from just us. I do believe he's sincere. It's my self esteem issues causing the problem now. I'm so used to not trusting it's just second nature. Hence why I am seeking therapy to work on that.

Thank you very much for "talking" with me, it's helpful to vent it out and get non-biased opinions on the situation. I really do appreciate it.
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Unread February 26th, 2012, 01:38 PM   #8
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Default Re: Swinging and the relationship

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Originally Posted by LadyRedd View Post
Most definitely. We haven't been to that club since he made his confession to me, it's just something I can't do now, even if we are just there to watch.
Good to hear.

Quote:
He's given me no red flags.
Do realize that that is excellent news and should be one of your catylists to a happy, angst free union. Communication is another as is reciprocation and of course trust. The four cornerstones of a successful life-long union. Seems you have three down pat and you're smart enough to work with a professional to reach the fourth.

Quote:
In fact he's even got rid of things he got when with her and other women, including a framed poster of a musician that was signed by the singer. He deleted all pictures of past trips with other women. He's done just about everything to erase his past and start memories from just us. I do believe he's sincere.
It certainly seems like he is. He's trying to prove to you that he is and re-assure you as best he can.

Quote:
It's my self esteem issues causing the problem now. I'm so used to not trusting it's just second nature. Hence why I am seeking therapy to work on that.
Kudos to you.

Quote:
Thank you very much for "talking" with me, it's helpful to vent it out and get non-biased opinions on the situation. I really do appreciate it.
you're welcome, Ladyred. Good luck and stick around if your therapist says it's not going to hinder your progess. There are a lot of insightful posters in this forum.
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Unread February 28th, 2012, 09:24 AM   #9
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Default Re: Swinging and the relationship

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Originally Posted by LadyRedd View Post
He's given me no red flags. In fact he's even got rid of things he got when with her and other women, including a framed poster of a musician that was signed by the singer. He deleted all pictures of past trips with other women. He's done just about everything to erase his past and start memories from just us.
Not to divert you from the happy path you are blazing, but how many times do you think I deleted every picture in my phone from other women, in an attempt to do all the right things for the current girl, only to allow those other women to continue to contact me and fill the phone up with their pictures, all over again. Yeah, sober in fact and appearence are two different animals in this world.
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Unread February 28th, 2012, 10:32 AM   #10
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Default Re: Swinging and the relationship

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Not to divert you from the happy path you are blazing, but how many times do you think I deleted every picture in my phone from other women, in an attempt to do all the right things for the current girl, only to allow those other women to continue to contact me and fill the phone up with their pictures, all over again. Yeah, sober in fact and appearence are two different animals in this world.
Now, now Mr. lets keep this positive until otherwise proven not to be. Keep in mind that Op's other half is in councelling so I'm thinking if he's going to that extent to change his merry ways then at the very least he's putting in more of an effort then deleting nakkkid photos to delude the newest piece of fluff long enough until she's hooked.
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Unread February 28th, 2012, 12:33 PM   #11
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Default Re: Swinging and the relationship

I've noticed in this forum and others that anytime a girl's relationship/sexual past is brought up by a insecure guy there is a very very strong opinion and concensus that its doesnt matter at all and the guy is a idiot/asshole or just plain wrong for caring. Even though we are now talking about a guy's past I dont think it should be viewed any different.
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Unread February 28th, 2012, 12:41 PM   #12
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Default Re: Swinging and the relationship

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I've noticed in this forum and others that anytime a girl's relationship/sexual past is brought up by a insecure guy there is a very very strong opinion and concensus that its doesnt matter at all and the guy is a idiot/asshole or just plain wrong for caring. Even though we are now talking about a guy's past I dont think it should be viewed any different.
Please don't bring up a gender war here Samson. Your statement just isn't true. This is one of the very few forums where we base our opinions on the individual opening post and not by what genitals the poster happens to have.

If you can show me the links to the threads you're thinking about, I'm sure it won't be quite what you're contending.

The only thread that comes to mind where the majority thought the dude was an asshole was the one where the male Op was too obsessed with the fact that his gal had other partners and he had only had her and he wanted to keep her but go on a break while he fkd his way out of his own mind set. .. very immature and obsessive he is and he should simply break up with her and get his experience instead of trying to have his American Pie while he keeps it.
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Unread February 28th, 2012, 01:15 PM   #13
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Default Re: Swinging and the relationship

Not trying to start a gender war it was just an observation and was not confined to just this forum.

Okay I will move on now.
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Unread February 28th, 2012, 01:16 PM   #14
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Default Re: Swinging and the relationship

Oh, okay! My bad.
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Unread February 28th, 2012, 05:04 PM   #15
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Default Re: Swinging and the relationship

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Originally Posted by LadyRedd View Post
(I continue to think about what he did in the past and how he enjoyed it and how I can't measure up).
Surely you enjoyed lovers prior to the current one? And you may have enjoyed those relations like nothing before or after? Should he be worried that he somehow does not measure up to you as you experienced pleasure at the hands of another, before him?
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Unread March 1st, 2012, 01:07 PM   #16
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Default Re: Swinging and the relationship

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Originally Posted by shivsean View Post
Surely you enjoyed lovers prior to the current one? And you may have enjoyed those relations like nothing before or after? Should he be worried that he somehow does not measure up to you as you experienced pleasure at the hands of another, before him?
Ahhhh, you hit a spot there... he DOES have a problem with my past relationships. I had one very good, very serious relationship before him, and my husband can not stand anything associated with that. He has a fear I will leave him if this guy came back (which I wouldn't, I know the difference in the relationships, where I was at that point in my life and where I am now and who I love). But he does worry about that. He has even gone so far as to say he would never go on a certain cruise (it's an annual music cruise where you get to interact with the musicians) because I have already been with another man before I met him. So he does have his insecurities in those areas.

I'm trying my best to look at it as who he was back then and who he is now and not compare myself to those women. It just won't happen overnight.
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