Abortion

[Barefoot Matt]

Ok, I don't want to start an ethical debate, just looking for opinions. Vote on your belief, and if you want to post, keep it short. Please don't rant. Btw, I am pro-choice, but not if it's a situation where a baby would simply be an inconveniance. I need a better reason than that.

[BigJim]

firstly, this will be VERY interesting, and both myself and the mods will keep an eye on this. BFM has CLEARLY said no ranting or commenting on others views.

just paste your own view/opinion and then leave it. no fights.

my view - i voted no. i view the foetus from the point of conception as a living thing, and would never even dream of killing a person, be it a 40yr old or a week old in the womb.

even if the mother's life was in jeopardy, i wouldn't think of it. and i'm both glad and lucky that my girlfriend's views on this are the same. both my views and her's stem from religious backgrounds.

[Pudding]

im all for abortions. dont see nething wrong with it.. kind of a back up contraceptive, its better than bringing out an unwanted person into this twisted world

[surfy_dude]

im also all for abortions...
what if a girl gets raped and falls pregnant to the rapist???
what if teenage girl gets pregnant, still in school, having child will ruin future???
there are so many different cases....
i really dont see abortion as murder... if anything its something which should be done for the better.

[surfy_dude]

also, may i add to my last post that i dont think that terminating a cell is murder.
just my opinion. dont hate me for it

[Am I tight or not?]

Ok, I don't want to start an ethical debate, just looking for opinions.




riiiight....



and I'm sure everyone who answers will keep it nice and polite :roll:

I believe women should have the right to have an abortion in the first part of the pregnancy (after a while the fetus is just too developed, you know, but in the first weeks it's just a bunch of cells dividing, mych like a cancer)

I believe this not because I enjoy knocking girls up then aborting fetuses (I actually want to have children and I'd feel bad about my gf having an abortion) but because I believe that's an option one should always have. I don't believe someone else has the right to impose their moral beliefs on me.

sometimes abortion is better than keeping the baby or giving it for adoption

[Am I tight or not?]

also, may i add to my last post that i dont think that terminating a cell is murder.
just my opinion. dont hate me for it



ha, totally off topic and spam, but imagine cancer is the next step in human evolution... our bodies start dividing and we reproduce like amoebas :) e've been killing eachother all this time :lol:

(ok, ok, I have an exam soon and I don't want to study. killing time here :) )

[Deidre]

I don't like the idea of unrestricted abortion, but I kind of like the system Sweden has today, with counciling, and after a certain period of time, needing a "perscription" to get an abortion. I think the age (of the foetus) limits should be lowered, a bit, though, as the absolute latest you're allowed to abort a [future] child today is at the same age it could, at earliest, with medical help, survive outside the mother's belly.

I think that if we disallow abortion, we should also disallow keeping newborns who haven't completed 8 months of pregnancy alive.

[rcwant2be]

I used to be adamently against abortion, however, after seeing alot of my friends get pregnant/become fathers while they were still in high school my opinion changed. I still feel that late term abortions are wrong, however, emergency contraception is an option. i like to be in control of my own body.

[EaCS]

Not about abortion but still related - there are some people who believe that any form of contraception to be killing a child, or, preventing a child from having a chance at life, and are against it. So abortion isn't the only form of contraceptive that is controversial.

Personally I haven't quite decided what my viewpoint is, on the one hand an unwanted child might have a very unfulfilling life, but who's to know, and more importantly, who's to say? On the other hand is it right to kill a child because they are unwanted, but when do you become considered a child?

[SoSweetAngel]

Good point EaCS - some poeple believe that the simple use of contraception is murder of an unborn child.

I am pro-choice al the way. I think that it is up to a mother, and I think that there is more cruelty in bringing an unwanted child into the world than having an abortion. I just don't see the child as a living thing until it is outside your body.

[kuju]

my views are VERY situation specific. I believe that a woman should have control over her own body and be allowed to have an abortion during the first trimester of her pregnancy, and NO later. if you can't bloddy well decide by the time three months is up, then you've got issues.

I believe that a woman who has been raped should NEVER be told that she shouldn't have an abortion. Don't you think she's traumatized enough?

But again, abortion should NEVER be used as birth control. When I worked in the hospital one of my friends was in the EOPS section... basically, day-surgery and problems where you don't stay the night. in the course of four months, the SAME girl came in three times for an abortion. She was oviously a hooker, but fuck it, can't you afford the bloody $8 a month for birth control pills?

[Tootsie Pop]

I think abortion is OK, except in some cases. If at the last second you decide on abortion, thats wrong. You had months to think about it... its too late to change your mind. However, if it is very early on and you know that no matter what you do, this child will not have a good life, maybe will be born to poverty with a dependancy to cocaine or something like that, then I think that it is the best thing to do. Thats all Im going to say about that.

[hunny]

Lol, Tootsie pop, I'd like to know where there even is such a thing as a 'last minute' abortion. After you carry it to term for 9 months, I believe that's called giving birth. As far as I know, an abortion only applies to NON viable fetuses, doesn't it? At least in the US?
I am pro choice. Totally up to the woman, and granted abortion is not a great thing, but it's often the better alternative for an unwanted, unplanned pregnancy.
Hmmm. No posturing, no mentioning my ideas for how to punish the lunatic fringe who bomb clinics, shoot doctors, and all the while proclaim they are doing it because 'life is sacred?'
Sigh.... you guys take all the fun out of things.

[Asphodelle13]

im also all for abortions...
what if a girl gets raped and falls pregnant to the rapist???
what if teenage girl gets pregnant, still in school, having child will ruin future???
there are so many different cases....
i really dont see abortion as murder... if anything its something which should be done for the better.


Good points you bring up there...in those cases I think abortion would be for the best...but still its a very personal serious decision to make, since you are taking a life. :roll:

[Bath of Glitter]

<span style='color:green'>I prefer the term, "For the woman's choice," Not "for abortion." Anyway, I don't give a crap what people do to their bodies. If they want to terminate a pregnancy, they should have the right to do so, but only with correct medical attention. Trying to induce a miscarriage is wrong, imo. The world is over-populated as it is. Humans are a species running rampant, and abortion can control this population explosion, if only in a minor way. </span>

[Tootsie Pop]

Lol, Tootsie pop


Either you misunderstand, or I was totally careless with my words. LOL, which is proboboly the case. What i meant was that after youve had this baby growing inside of you for 6 or 7 (or 8..etc) months, and THEN you decide you want an abortion.. I just dont agree. youve had so much time to think it all through... why did you wait until the pregnancy was coming to an end to decide on abortion? Ya know? Theres no real way to explain how I view it... its rather.. eh.. complex. But, I tried. Im not "passionate" about it. Do whatever you want. Im not one of those who will run around with signs protesting outside a hospital. :oops: No one quote me in this thread anymore... lol... I just cant explain myself well enough. Its a topic that I know too little about. :oops:

[Brass Monkey]

I'm a guy...which means I have no say in this subject. I voted neutral because it really isn't my choice. I'm not the one that would have to carry it or have to concieve it...or the one that would have to go to the clinic to have an abortion.

My g/f (now ex) became pregnant almost a year ago and despite my beliefs and feelings...I realized that I had no say in the situation at all. Despite it being a part of me, it was growing in her and she was the one that would have had to carry it. She made the decision to have an abortion, and all I could do was be there to support her and help her through it all (while trying to maintain my own sanity at the same time).

Before that, I didn't believe in it unless the situation called for it. But I realized that it's not my choice, despite how I feel or what I believe.

[hunnybunz]

I'm definitely pro choice. No one person should have the right to tell every woman in our country what she can do with her body. It's a personal choice a woman has to make for herself.

[oyevey]

i voted no except for some cases cause i agree that if ur raped u shouldn't have to have the child and if the mother may be in jepardy.

i don't agree that it shoudl be used as birth control,

the 1st trimest soudns good to me too
the thing is i think we shoudl all have the choice i mean i wouldn't want some one to tellme that i can't do something ifi think it woudl be for the better. its their decisionand they will ahve ot live with it


be safe

[Kari311]

Ok I must restrain myself..I will be polite...
Anyways, I am against abortion in ANY case.
Here are my reasons:

one, if the girl is raped or young or doesn't have the money, then she could give up the baby for adoption, there are hundreds of parents out there looking for a baby of their own, couldn't a girl be mature enough to get over her own issues and give a miracle for someone else?

two, if the doctor says the life of the mother or child is in danger, well doctors don't know 100% anything about the baby. Hell, sometimes they get the sex of the baby wrong, how can you trust them 100% to know about the health?!!!

three, what was three? Oh yea, the whole murder, not murder issue. Ok let's look at it this way, it's legal to abort a baby BUT is a pregnant woman is murdered, the murderer is charged for TWO counts of muder.
Also, fetuses have a heartbeat within 18 days of conception, most women don't know they're even pregnant until at least 10 days after conception.

I'm not attacking pro-choice people, but I just hope it gives people something to at least think about when they think about abortion.

[JessiMari]

Abortion is very scary...but knowing you're pregnant is FREAKIN scarier!! what the hell are you gonna do? How will your parents react? it's scary shit...I would be so scared that i'd prolly have an abortion even more if the father of my baby doesn't give a crap and abandons me....that would really suck althought i think would suffer a heart attack right at the moment I know I'm pregnant! :-? ...but on the other hand I knew the cnsequences and I didn't care so it's my fault and not the babies..so I really wouldn't know...i'd prolly need some serious counseling:roll:

[oyevey]

i think its easy for us to sit here and say its a horible thing and we would not do it. But the fact of the matter is if it actually happened to me i'm not sure what i'd do expecially if the father left. i know i can't have a child at my age, the responcibility of a child they are soley dependent on u for everything. i'd liek ot think i could handel it and if i had support i woudl but many girls don't
and a raped girl giving up the baby for adoption i don't knwo about u but i woudln't wnat to be carrying the child of hte man who raped me for 9 months and give birth to it and then just give it away. (i don't think i coudl ever give away a child in general anyway.)oo and when they wanted to look for their rents, i mean what woudl u say if u saw them, o ur father raped me and that was y i gave u up. that can't be good for anyones welbeing to know ur here cause ur mother was raped ouch


i was gonna write more in my 1st post but i had to leave so thats my add on.

[goofball]

i really go back and forth on this one.

it's a conflict between the mothers right to privacy and the babies right to life.
one school of thought is the question of when is the baby human, and that justifies allowing abortion up to teh beginning to trimester 3.

the other is that the baby is human, (at least if it lives to a month it is exceedingly likely to live to term) and you are killing a person when you do that.

i go back and forth between these 2 positions.

[Sparklies]

In my opinion, I don't think abortion is the best thing ever. When you make the decision to have sex, you make the decision to ultimately deal with the consequences and take responsibility for your actions; in other words, you have decided you are mature enough to have sex, then you have also decided that you can deal with what happens afterwards, namely pregnancy. It really bothers me that people can just pass-off pregnancy like nothing; there are so many people out there who invest so much money and time in trying to have children, and then there are others who just pretty much throw them away. But, I also have to consider putting myself in that place. If I were to get pregnant, I would seriously freak out! So, I don't know what I would do. But, that is why I choose to not have sex, because I am not mature enough to deal with that yet.

However, I think the main exception to this rule would be rape. If you are raped, then I say go for it. It was not your choice to be having sex in the first place, you were forced, make sense?

But, anyway, that's just my take on the whole thing.

[Nightshade Enchantment]

To whomever was confused about the terms of abortion -- an abortion is considered an abortion up until you give birth, to say the least.

I voted for. Mainly in the first trimester though, unless you didn't find out that you were pregnant till early second trimester for one reason or another... As long as that isn't your only form of birth control, then I'm pretty much okay with it. I mean, if you decide to have a third trimester abortion because you don't feel like having the kid, that's a no-no in my book. But if you'd decide to have a third trimester abortion because your life as the mother is jeopardized or the life of the baby or if tests have been shown that your child is going to have some life threatening condition that either you can't afford to be making trips to the hospital for every so often... Well, to say the least, there's always exceptions to every rule in my opinion.

[goofball]

and another thing

i really despise 'argument from resposibilities'

i.e., you shoulnd't be allowed to have an abortion because it's you should accept resposibility blah blah blah.

give me a break.
you can use this logic to argue that people with the clap shouldn't be cured because they knew the risks of having sex, or that people who have the flu shouldn't be given drugs because they knew the risks of getting otu of bed. give me a fuckign break.

I also think that no special considerations should be given to women who are raped. The argument for thinking abortion is wrong stems from the babies rights. In the case of rape it the baby is still innocent. It didn't rape you. Besides, you can always give the baby up for adoption. (note, this not an argument for the banning of abortion, just, whatever the correct answer is, special dispensation should not be given to women who are raped)

[Sydney123456]

Not about abortion but still related - there are some people who believe that any form of contraception to be killing a child, or, preventing a child from having a chance at life, and are against it. So abortion isn't the only form of contraceptive that is controversial.


Yeah...those are INCREDIBLY, MASSIVELY strict Catholics. We have a couple people like that in our town...the "Catholic Family's"...3 to be in fact, each family having 10+ kids in their family. GOD, can you imagine?!

Me? I'm pro-choice. Although...the age I think should have a set limit. Ok...I'm a selfish bitch, and if I were to get pregnant while still in high school or the first year of college...yeah, I'd want an abortion. And, get it AT LEAST before the first month is up. There is just too much to lose in that situation...being that age, and being pregnant. But, if you're older than that...I think you should be able to have the child, and give it up for adoption. If I were 22 or 23, and I were to get pregnant...I'd give it to the adoption agency.

But...me myself...having an abortion, I'd try my ABSOLUTE HARDEST to stay away from sex. Anything else sexual is fine...but, until I'm old enough and mature enough to give it away, or by some miracle of God I want to keep the child (I'm very "Anti-My-Own-Children" right now), I wouldn't have sex. Even THINKING you're pregnant is the SCARIEST thing in the world I would imagine. I can't even think of it myself without shuddering, literally.

To end my post...I'll repeat it, I'm pro-choice.

PS: Everything I said was related to my own life, and in no way would I expect someone to think the same as me, especially the staying away from sex part. ;-)

[Sparklies]

Okay, um, goofball, I am really not going to try and start an argument with you. I understand where you are coming from and I respect that...but if you don't like my opinion...TOUGH! You are not here to bash my opinion or the opinion of others. The question here is how do YOU feel about abortion....not let's-say-how-I-feel-and-then-keep-tabs-on-those-who-disagree-with-me-and-bash-them, k? I know it may seem like I am doing that to you at the moment, but I couldn't just sit here and let you do that. Alrighty, good night.

[BigJim]

goofball, i specifically stated at the onset that there was to be NO dissing other's opinions or beliefs!!

you have to be the first one, don't you?!! so what if you don't agree?? that's why it's called your opinion! it's not her opinion, or my opinion, it's YOURS!!

this thread was going along very nicely up until then.
don't fuck it up again.

[goofball]

first, let me be perfectly honest.

these threads get long, a lot of the time i dont' read everything that has been said. (espicially names i've never seen before)

so, when i wrote my piece on the argument from responsibilities and how rape should not be treated as a special case, I had not read a word what 'sparklies' had written.

I hereby categorically deny all the charges.

Second, what is the point of a discusson if we can't engage other people in what they are saying.

Third, sparklies, if hold an opinion you feel warrants posting for others to read, have the huevos to back it up with something more than "that's my opinion and everyone has their own opinion and everyone is special and please odnt hurt my self esteem by applying logic to what i have said". I use logic to pick apart your opinions, fight back, come up with a well though respose and post it instead of masturbating in a pool of your own tears.[/u]

[Spriff]

In my opinion, I don't think abortion is the best thing ever. When you make the decision to have sex, you make the decision to ultimately deal with the consequences and take responsibility for your actions; in other words, you have decided you are mature enough to have sex, then you have also decided that you can deal with what happens afterwards, namely pregnancy. It really bothers me that people can just pass-off pregnancy like nothing; there are so many people out there who invest so much money and time in trying to have children, and then there are others who just pretty much throw them away.


I am also pro-life, and I totally agree with you. The way I see it, is that abortion is like killing an innocent person everytime you make a mistake in your life that you can't deal with.

[Androk is God]

I not only support abortions but infanticide, stop over population before we consume everything like the damn plauge that we are

[Barefoot Matt]

I must agree with goofball, although that last bit was uncalled for (masturbating in a pool of her own tears??). Other than that, I don't think he did anything wrong. He was supporting his own vote with a specific example, and whether or not that conflicts with someone else's opinion doesn't matter. It's his opinion, and she has her own. He's allowed to disagree, and it only got out of hand when she took his opinion as a personal insult.

To Androk: interesting POV. Do you believe in cannibalism?

[Sparklies]

Ummm, okay 'goofball' :roll:

You know, let's just feel the love in here guys, eh? I really honestly do not care that you picked apart my opinion with logic, even after you said that you weren't picking it apart, hmmm. But whatever, that's not the point, let's just forget about it, I said wht I had to say and I am finished now...even though it wasn't good enough for you.

And Spriff, more power to ya!

[Jebus]

Against - You have sex, you take the responsibilty, plain and simple. You mess up and get pregnant, taking a infants life is the wrong way out. There are many ways to avoid getting pregnant, so if you have open sex when you want to and you get pregnant, looks like you just messed up.

For - You have AIDS, you get pregnant, why should your child have to suffer? Your child is going to have a fatal disease that is going to impare him for life, why should he have to suffer? You get raped, you get pregnant, it is not your fault, why should you get punished (in a sense).

A young girl was raped by a man when she was very young. She decided to have that child, even though an abortion seemed like the right thing to do. The girl already lived in a very small home, and was bearly trying to stay alive. She had that baby, and she cared for it to the best of her ability.....that baby was Martin Luther King Jr.

[blizzard_echo2000]

oyevey,

where'd you get that info on Martin Luther King jr.?

[blizzard_echo2000]

my bad,i meant jebus

[Barefoot Matt]

I find it interesting how so many people share Jebus' view that if you get raped, bearing the child is "punishment". I'm not saying there's anything wrong with him having that opinion, but to me, any child is a gift, no matter how it is conceived.

Interesting point on Mr. King.

Jebus, you mentioned that it's wrong to get an abortion if the couple messes up, eg. by not using contraception. What is your opinion in a situation where they use contraception, and they use it properly, but it fails (eg. condom breaking). On the one hand, they still made the choice to have sex, but on the other, they did take precautions, so should they be held responsible?

[Jebus]

Using a condom, or anything related in such, is just a way to lessen the chances of getting pregnant. You still must realize that you are taking a chance, and you must be able to accept the consiquences. It doesn't matter how you deal with protection, it's never full-proof. So, the two people at hand must come to a judgement that it is worth the risk. If they can't accept the outcome, if one exists, they shouldn't have sex in the first place.

So, in conclusion, even if you use a contraception, and you get pregnant, you still must realize that this is your mistake, not the contraception. You took the chance, even though you lessened the possibility, so you have to accept the outcome.

[Cashew]

Okay. Abortion. Something I actually know allllll about (had to learn about it in school).

According to Christian beliefs, life begins AT conception, so of course, killing the child while still in the womb, is STILL killing a child, by that belief. Also, Christians don't believe in contraceptives. So abortion is wrong that way, as well.

As far as rape goes, it's actually very difficult to become pregnant by a rapist. When a woman is raped, her body shuts certain things down which makes it nearly impossible to have an egg fertilized. And if she DOES become pregnant, isn't it possible that she became pregnant for a reason. After all, God works in mysterious ways.

Also, abortions can be so dangerous for the mothers. There are so many things that we just don't hear about. Many women have nightmares about their babies, which is one of the easier effects of an abortion. Some women go to men that aren't qualified, and don't care about what they're doing. Some women bleed to death, with parts of her body sucked out with the baby. And women that work in clinics are often told not to do anything to help these mothers. This isn't so often found as it was in the 70's-80's, but it still happens.

Next... some people agree with abortion only because it gives them control over their body. That's true, but is that control worth another's life? The aborted baby could have grown up to be an incredible person, but how will you ever know if they don't live past their third tri-mester?

Personally, I don't agree with ALL Christian beliefs, but abortion is something I will never agree with. If people were responsible, abortion would be nearly unheard of. Unfortunetly, many there IS no full-proof contraception method, and people aren't likely to start abstaining until marriage. I myself will wait, because I never want to be torn between having an abortion, or giving life to a child.

It's just not worth it. :cry:

:oops: Alright.... and now I sound like a religious nut... But that's still how I feel. Abortion is the saddest thing in the world. :cry:

Cheers.

[Barefoot Matt]

A very powerful reply by Cashew_Girl *nods in acknowledgement*

[Brass Monkey]

Okay. Abortion. Something I actually know allllll about (had to learn about it in school


I was pretty much just observing this thread until I read this.

Umm...right. You think you know all about it because you learned it in school? What a load of shit. I'm sorry, but no one here knows what it is truely like unless they have actually had to go through it.

People, please don't preach about what it is like or what people go through during something like that. You have no idea what it's like...

I should be a father right now. I should have a one month old boy or girl right now. But I'm not and I don't. And I still cry every time I am reminded of it.

Every day I still think about the child I should have, the decisions that were made, the accidents that caused it to happen. And many nights I wake up in a cold sweat from having to relive it all in my dreams. I was mentally destroyed from it and I am still trying to pick up all the peices. But most of all, my faith was completely shattered. The faith I had in myself and the faith I had in religion...both were completely gone. I almost killed myself on more than one occasion, I lashed out against other people, and I almost completely lost my mind. The only thing that kept me together was my girlfriend. I had to be there for her and I knew that she needed me to be there...it was that need to be there that kept me alive and kept me going.

You have no idea what it is like....and don't even try to pretend.

[Barefoot Matt]

Wow :oops:

[Cashew]

Oh! I'm sorry Brass Monkey. I don't mean that I actually 'know' about abortion. It's just that from what I've been told, and read, it's seems like an awful thing. You're right. I don't really know anything about the experience of abortion. I hope that I never do. And I'm sorry that you have been through something so awful.

Your grief is evident, and I wish that such a terrible thing had never happened. That's why I wish there was no such thing as abortion. :oops:

[Kari311]

I just wanted to say that I completely agree with Brass Monkey, you can't know anything about something unless you go through it. However I think that Cashew Girl had good points that I agree with as well.

Abortion is one of the toughest issues I think anyone could face. I have a close friend who got an abortion and it's been really hard for me to stay friends with her because of it. I am not about to say what is going through the minds of girls who have abortions but I can offer the opinion of someone who's been adopted and someone who was convinced I was pregnant for about a month. It's a hell of a scary thing to be pregnant or to even think you're pregnant and all the issues that people have to face around pregnancy and abortion should not have to be faced. I don't think that anyone can sit here and say what they would or wouldn't do because nless they've been through it, you don't realize all the emotions and the moral dilemnas that come up when pregnancy happens.

[Brass Monkey]

I don't think that anyone can sit here and say what they would or wouldn't do because nless they've been through it, you don't realize all the emotions and the moral dilemnas that come up when pregnancy happens.


Nothing could be closer to the truth.

The things I thought and the opinions I had before it all happened may have been one thing. But, after having to face it myself and going through everything associated with it....those thoughts and opinions meant nothing. What I thought I would do and what I thought would happen wasn't even close to what actually was done.

You all may have these thoughts and feelings about this matter and you all say what you would do if it happened to you. But, if in reality, it does happen to you...things will change and feelings will change. You say the things you do right now, but if it actually happened to you...it would be different.

Seeing other people go through it and saying that if it happened to you, you would do things a different way. But you'll never really know unless it does happen to you.