Help! He Likes to be Alone? Mixed signals

[lostnconfused]

I was introduced to a guy about a month ago through a friend. I am 31 and he is 38. We hit it off immediately and spent a LOT of time together for the first 2 weeks. For my birthday he got such thoughtful gifts.. and not that the amount matters, but spent well over 1K. With personal messages on each one, and a meaning for each (my business, etc) he asked if I wanted to go to vegas this summer, baseball games...you name it..all the while telling me he wished we met sooner (our mutual friend had been trying to set us up for about 6 months)

to make it short...He initiates everytime we hang out, dinners, bbq with his friends, I met his parents at a party at his place, etc. He started saying "we" instead of "I"..calls me during the day, at night etc.. things were going really well, or so I thought


Last week he seemed a little distant I asked what was up...
He said that he is a very independent person and needs a lot of time alone. He said he loves spending time with me and doesn't want to see anyone else.. I agreed and said that we were spending too much time together to fast, so we took it down a few notches and I have been sleeping at my apartment about 3 nights a week, the rest at his place (he ALWAYS initiates)

Last night, for the 2nd time he said he was too tired for sex, he gets up at 7am, I get up at 9. so this started a conversation.. he admitted that even with his last girlfriend he didn't spend as much time with her as he and I have in just this past month. He said wants to keep dating, but needs more time alone. I was honest and said that I am not looking for an instant boyfriend but that I know what I want from my future and am not going to invest another 4-5 months only to say, "oh that was fun and move on to the next guy."Then he said that he has NEVER spent as much time with ANY girl as he has with me.. and it's only been a month!

He has only had 2 girlfriends his entire life and he is 38... he said he doesn't think he's ever been in "true love". .His brother and sister are both divorced, he also said... "what do you want, to end up like 60% of the world... unhappy and miserable?" he didn't say it in a harsh way, the conversation was not an argument. He was tired, and said, let's talk more tomorrow I don't want to ruin what we have. I asked if he thought he was capable of truly loving someone and he said yes.. I told him I wasn't so sure.. and I made it clear I wasn't talking about me..

I asked him if he would be ok with me dating other people, and he said that isn't what he wants but if that was what I wanted, he would respect my decision and would still "hang out" with me.

He asked me if I was going to volleyball tonight (we play on a league) and I said i wasn't sure... he said he would call me later, kissed me goodbye and left for work. After he left I took all of my things from his place when I left this morning, every last article of clothing, etc.

He has a very demanding career and works 6 or 7 days a week. His past explains a lot but I need some advice here as to what I should do... I know this isn't about wanting to be single and hook up with other women.. 3 of my friends have known him since high school and said he's always been single and not a "player"

Do I continue to date him and risk getting hurt even more than I am now, or should I just cut my losses and stop seeing him... I did NOT see this coming and I am devastated.. I was falling in love with him, and haven't felt this way about someone in years.. i'm at a loss

any advice greatly appreciated... I getting too many mixed signals from him

[lostnconfused]

anyone? is this is the wrong forum?

[Paw]

Hi Lostnconfused...

This is rough. He sure did spend a LOT of money on you pretty quickly to just lose heart like that. Now, I'm a bit younger than you... but here's what I would do in your situation.

This all depends on what you think is too much time. Clearly from your post you aren't in 100% agreement with him about time spent together. He still seems like he wants a bit more to himself. If you don't like that, tell him. If it becomes a big enough issue from there (i.e. he insists on more time alone and you refuse to be a convenience girlfriend) then threaten to break it off completely. That'll get him to show his true colors.

To be honest, I'M a pretty solitary guy... but when it comes to women, I open up. Now, he DID open up... for a month. Now he's either getting cold feet or feeling trapped. Since he was the one initiating all this "stuff," these are bad signs. It could be that he's losing interest.

Whatever the case, don't let yourself be strung along while he figures out whether he wants to fall in love with you or not. If he's this way now... would you ever consider marrying him?

Best of luck.

[lostnconfused]

You are right, something is going on.... but I'm not sure what it is. I don't think he feels trapped, he is the one initiating everything... and I don't think it's about losing interest because since I wrote the post this morning, he has called me 3 times, I have yet to answer.

I don't want to play games but I feel like I don't know what to say to him right now. He left a voicemail and the other 2 times, just called.

He did bring up the "being independent" and loving his time alone after the 2nd week. Then again last night... I don't want to stop seeing him altogether, but as you said, i'm not going to be a convenience girlfriend either.

so I suppose I will return his call(s)...

Should I bring up what we spoke about last night? We also had plans to go to a graduation party on saturday for my friend... perhaps remind him and say I'll see him then? If it's alone time that he needs, he can have it.. but i'm not going to invest any more of myself emotionally only to have it lead to nothing..

does he sound like a commitment-phobe to anyone else??

[automorphism]

Hah! He sounds like me, in the sense that I've so little free time now.

I can understand where he's coming from. I don't think there's any funny business going on. I think he's simply caught between two slightly conflicting motivations: to have a girlfriend and to keep his life the way he likes it, with much time by himself. He obviously needs much of his free time by himself because he works so much.

He's clearly into you, but is immensely afraid of being _unable_ to fit a girlfriend into his already busy schedule. Perhaps that's why he's had so few girlfriends? At any rate, I don't think he feels trapped. Perhaps more hesitant of getting trapped.

So perhaps he's starting to show signs of fatigue, because he's already feeling he needs to take more time to himself. That probably scares him a little. After all, he's going to have to spend less time with you. He can't really keep what he's doing up with his current lifestyle.

I think then the question is, are you guys capable of finding enough time to be together while still allowing him to be comfortable with the rest of his life?

It's not an easy thing to do, but your best hope is likely to tell him you understand that he can't keep it up, and that you understand he'll have to take more time to himself.

Then see what happens. It's almost a test, to see if he can juggle his life sufficiently well for you. Whatever his reasons, if he can't find enough time for you, then you'll have to reconsider the relationship, but at least give him a chance. It's by no means easy sometimes to accommodate a girlfriend, and perhaps if he tries a little, you two might be happy.

I suspect he's not really against commitment, but rather he just chose other parts of his life over girls for a long time, and perhaps he's ready for a change. But we'll see.

[kuju]

It really does sound like a time management thing to me as well. I'm mostly a loner myself. I would probably have some difficulty fitting a boyfriend into my life. Not because I'm super busy, but because I don't always like having people around.

BUT.

It's all about compromise. You need to, firstly, answer the phone. Then you need to sit down with him and talk this out. Remember, it's ONLY been a month. And if you had been spending every day at his place, then that IS moving fast, and that can certainly take a lot of his time, very quickly. Back off, the both of you need to move more slowly. You need to not freak out, and he needs to learn to mange his time better, and learn to incorporate you into his life. BUT that takes TIME. Again, moving too fast here will be the deal-breaker. Discuss how the BOTH of you can adjust to the relationship. And then reevaluate in a month or two, see if there has been any improvement on both sides. HONESTY IS KEY. Don't beat about the bush just to spare the other's feelings.

[Paw]

What they said. :)

[lostnconfused]

AutoMorph and Kuju and Paw:

I agree with you 100% and you have very good insight and advice.. all of you do :)

We spoke for about an hour last night and decided to continue to date (only each other) but take it down a few notches. He said that he knows himself and that if we continue at this rate, the relationship will not work.

He said he has underlying issues that have nothing to do with me, and his own ideas of what he sees as a "relationship". And again, brought up his fear of marriages failing and need for independence and his demanding career.

I'm fine with all that we discussed, but my guard is definitely up and i'm still confused because he came on so strong and was SO much the pursuer... we are still going to the planned bbq tomorrow, but I have a feeling that things are going to be different.. and not in a good way.. i'm going with an open mind but my guy is telling me i'm going to be distant. I will try my best :)

I am capable of giving it another month or so, but if things don't progress or if I feel like I am not being treated as I should be with respect, or if he treats me in a friendly manner, rather than someone he is dating... i'm going to move on.

I told him that if we are only going to see each other once or twice a week then I would like the option to date other people, he said that isn't the case.. just that we won't be spending 5-6 nights together.

I suppose I should take it day by day?

[kuju]

I can see how you'd be confused overall, especially since he did all the initiating, and then suddenly backed off. But he was probably super-excited in the beginning, and then it took a toll on him. Understandable, if annoying.

I think you're going about it the right way. I also think that taking your stuff out of his apartment was a good thing, if probably a little shocking to him without any explanation given. You don't want to push your personality on him so quick. If you DO find yourself staying there 3-4 nights a week, however, as for a small space. Half a drawer or something where you can stash some underwear, etc. And perhaps ask to leave a toothbrush there. Those are reasonable requests.

[lostnconfused]

Well, here's the weekend play-by-play.

Friday night he texted to see what I was up to, i was hanging with the girls and we were about to head out to the bars. He said he would text me when then changed bar and meet up for a drink.

Then he called a bit later, and said everyone was going to his place and to come there.. my 2 friends and i went and i gave him a kiss on the cheek to say hello and then joined in meeting the other people, etc.. not paying all that much attention to him..

He became very clingly and was hugging and kissing me, saying i looked beautiful, etc. Everyone started to leave and I ended up staying.. next morning i went home and ran some errands, he called to say that the bbq was a no-go due to the rain.. and told me to come buy, they were betting on horses and relaxing.. i went over later that evening and spent the night again, but he woke up in a miserable mood, he said because i tried to wake him up... he had fallen asleep at 10pm and i woke him up at 2 to do what people "do"

Sunday morning he got out of bed and said he had mail to go through, all the while no kiss, no hug, nothing.. i said i was going to head home and he said, stay, we were going to order breakfast.. so we did and then relaxed for a couple hours.. i had plans to go out with some friends to the movies and he had a family dinner in NYC for fathers day at 6

I left an he said i'll call you later babe and gave me a kiss.. we also bought tix for a baseball game this friday.

I did not hear from him last night or at all today... i will not contact him.. but thurs we play on a league for volleyball... wondering if that is when i will see/hear from him next.. maybe he will take someone else to the game...

i don't know what to think at this point

[lostnconfused]

oh, and i never leave my "stuff" all over his place, it's always in one small bag in the spare bedroom... i've never been one to try to "move in" on a guy

[ember]

To me he sounds like a guy who is not sure what he wants, not just a guy who needs time alone.
My last two "relationships" (I'm honestly not sure what to call them) were with guys who were hot and cold like this. They both seemed to have lots of issues about relationships; I think they at times wanted one but at times did not.
I'd be very cautious. It's hard for a man like this to change, at least in my experience. Both the guys I am talking about initiated everything, pursued, etc. The one who broke my heart took a year and a half before he decided he didn't know what he wanted and ultimately ended it.
You need to have some open conversation with him, and if your situation is making you sad, don't stay. There ARE guys out there who know what they want. And if you meet an extra one, send him my way!

[lostnconfused]

I did what I swore I wouldn't do... i called.. he didn't answer and I ran out to the store and of course, passed his house (it's 3 blocks away) and he is home, lights on in every room..... would he just cut me off with no explanation when we have tickets for a game on friday.. and volleyball thursday night?

I'm at a loss.. I didn't leave a message... I am literally kicking myself for calling...ugh I promised myself I wouldn't and did anyway..... what is next?????

[ember]

Don't kick yourself. You didn't do anything wrong. Why don't you just wait until volleyball and see what happens? I know it's hard...
It doesn't sound like he treats you very well, and just gives you enough to keep you hanging on.

[lostnconfused]

ugh i know i deserve better than this and i know he wants more time to consider me his girlfriend, it has only been a little over a month but in this entire time he hasn't gone one day without calling, let alone 2... and now I have to try to sleep knowing that i called... and if I don't hear from him tmrw the agony grows.. i'm already on antidepressants for anxiety and have trouble sleeping as it is.

you know how they say when you meet "the one" sometimes you just know... I felt that with him.. and haven't felt that way in over 6 years.

IF i do hear from him, do I act casual, like it's not a big deal that he's been MIA or do I mention it?

ember, i just read a lot of your posts and you're fab... I like your advice :)

[kuju]

ah... anxiety issues. That'll do it.

People in a relationship do NOT have to talk every day. If they don't talk for a day or two, it's OKAY. It doesn't always MEAN something. act casual.

It sounds like he likes to do the chasing. Sometimes that's a good thing, but there comes a point where you stop making yourself 'unavailable' in order to peak his interest... and then when he has you, he doesn't want you. He also sounds like he treats you better when you're around people... is he trying to show you off?

[lostnconfused]

no, we have went out on about 10 dates, just us... gorgeous places, wonderful dinners and he holds my hand, opens car doors, etc... and he refers to us as "we" all the time..even in front of his parents the day we met and his friends most guys shy away from "we"... he'll say things like, babe, we gotta get this or that... or next week we should take a trip to wherever to pick up things.. ie his new apartment. he also took me to his work to show me his office and he owns it... it was really cute and he told me it was a surprise as to where we were going.. then he also will text me and say be ready at a certain time, I have a surprise. one surprise was to watch the little league teams that he sponsors...

its so hot and cold i just don't know and while I do agree while "dating" someone you don't need to talk every day, it's just not what has happened in the past 6 weeks... and to not answer my call or return it....?

[lostnconfused]

another important note.. he mentioned a weddding in august for a best friend from college and said that he was going alone.. i asked why.. he said.. i've been single my whole life, i'm not usually invited with guests... i find it hard to believe he was invite without a guest if it's a best friend.... perhaps he doesn't see us still together in august... and/or there will be a lot of single women there.. why would he even bring up the wedding.. to throw it in my face??

[ember]

Thanks, lost, if only I could apply it to my own life :)
I can see why you are confused. He may back away when he thinks you are getting too close or too serious. Regardless, I would wait until you're supposed to see him at volleyball, be friendly, and see what happens. I know it's hard not to hear from him, but try to distract yourself if you can. If you don't see him there, I don't think there's anything wrong with giving him a call and saying hey, what's up, how are you? He is certainly giving you mixed messages.
Stop beating yourself up that you called him! You are allowed to call him.

[lostnconfused]

well after tonight's call i won't call again.. afterall, he saw the missed call... the ball's in his court now, right? vollleyball court, his court ...same difference :) he also plays softball on thursday nights so he may skip out on volleyball and go to softball.. in that case I'm screwed and without a ticket to the game i've been dying to go to for over 2 months.. Subway Series at citfield.. i'm a yanks fan, he's mets....not a deal-breaker though.. gonna try to sleep now.. wish me luck.. have a feeling it's not gonna happen

[lostnconfused]

we spent a great weekend together.. volleyball thurs night.. dinner at his place afterwards.. then the yanks/mets game friday.. bbq saturday and today friends came over and we just chilled watching tv/movies etc.

his friend needed a ride home and we were in the middle of a movie.. i said i would drive him and come back, to finish the movie.. he said.. no you know i like to spend sunday nights alone and i'm going to bed.

I said, ok then asked his friend if he wanted to have a cigarette then leave.. my "guy" flipped the switch and became his nasty side.. he said " why are you being rude, my friend wants to leave, can't you smoke on the drive". his friend saw my face and went to tell him how rude that was..

he said he didn't care and that I fail to "recognize and respect" his wishes.. i ended up crying and his friend talked to me on the way home. He said that no matter it was his friend, what he said to me in that tone of voice was disrepectful and he said he would never put up with it. He also agreed that he has never seen him spend as much time with a woman as he has with me. He told me his best advice was to decide if I could deal with his "flipping the switch" and talking to me like I was 10 years old and below him.

I am still upset, crying as i type this.. I just don't get it.. i'm thinking i'm wasting my time and it really hurts because i enjoy the nice side of him... which is 95% of the time.

What do I do? we had plans to go to dinner and movies on tuesday but i feel like after the incident in front of his friend, things may have shifted.. his friend flat out told him he was wrong, took my bag for me and waited at the elevator.. all the while i was crying and no hug from him.. just "why are you upset?" you can't just leave when i ask you too????

I'm so hurt and confused

[lostnconfused]

I need some advice here, he called me today and said we need to talk and wanted to do it in person.. I said ok, he said how about tuesday or wednesday.. i said well if the talk is going to be that we are not going to see each other then i'd rather just say it now and get it over with.

He replied, saying that even though we've only have a few arguments or fights, whatever you want to call what it is when he talks down to me and is nasty "flips his switch" etc.. he said that i've been in more relationships and know more than him about this kind of "stuff"

he said he doesn't want to stop seeing me BUT, he feels like maybe I am more invested emotionally than he is and that it's not fair for either of us. I agree but feel that most relationships have there times when one person maybe slightly more "emotionally invested" than the other.

so we talked for about 20 mins, he said he wasn't going to be around tonight.. I had a feeling that maybe he had a date but i really don't think that's the case.. i've been with him so much and he agreed to be exclusive although no "girlfriend title"

he said he would call me back in 15 minutes and that was 3 hours ago.. he was working so i know he's busy. he also said he "wasn't around" tonight.

should I text him and say.. know ur busy, do you still want to talk over dinner tomorrow? (that was his original request)

my gut is telling me to give it one more chance but my heart feels like he isn't "emotionally invested" nearly enough for this to work..

any advice appreciated.. esp from kuju, auto, ember and paw.. and all others, of course.

[Paw]

Hope this isn't too late... spent the weekend outta town.

Uhm, lost.... he's full of crap.

I really hate to tell you that, but he basically did his best to break up with you. I don't think it's really your "gut" telling you to give it one more chance... you're just optimistic. You like this guy and you want him to treat you right... but you can't wish it into happening.

There really are a TON of guys out there who aren't bi-polar like this. The affection you have to give deserves to be requited fully, not just when your "boyfriend" is in a good mood. I hate to hear of you having been treated this way. Often, it's more damaging to leave a person's emotions up in the air than to just flat out reject them. There's nothing quite like getting your hopes up and then dangling over the cliff of disappointment by a thread for a few weeks before inevitably falling. It's kind of... cruel.

His personal issue(s) with relationships are too complex for you or anyone else on this board to spend their life analyzing. The fact is--and I think you know this deep down--he's not qualified to be in a relationship with you. He's failed the test. His lone wolf mentality will likely land him in a lonely fate. You, however, seem to have a fairly normal romantic affinity. See where I'm going here? You're not a good couple. I'm sorry.

My advice (TLDR version): Break up with him and move on. If he comes crawling back claiming to have changed and apologizing left and right... then you can talk. (I don't think it's likely.) Good luck.

[automorphism]

"You're yes, then you're no/You're in, then you're out"...

You know, if I didn't know better, I'd think you and he were a couple that was going through a rough patch in a three-year relationship. Do you really want the beginning of a new relationship to already have this rough patch?

If you can't really enjoy your first months together, how will you ever bond for the long haul?

After what you wrote, I think he has a few things to work on before he tries to start a relationship. He sounds not that into you.

[lostnconfused]

He wants to have dinner tomorrow night to "talk more" about what we are going to do going forward.

I agree 100% with everything you said except trying to break things off, because I asked, and said should we just be friends and he said that's not what he wanted but needed tonight to 'sort through his thoughts"

I was considering telling him when/if we actually go to dinner that I don't want to see him anymore, and that I wish him the best but I suppose it will depend on how the conversation begins and what his thoughts are on it.

I texted him after he didn't call and said.. i know ur busy, so let's continue tmrw as planned over a bite to eat.. he responded and said, sounds good I'll see you tmrw. If he didn't care or wanted to break up why would he make the plans to sit down.. I flat out said if this isn't going anywhere then there's no point in "having dinner" to say that.. he said that's not what he wants.

Should I at least go to talk over dinner???? I suppose what i wrote above didn't really explain that he called me early today and said he wanted to talk and that he was very sorry for the way he spoke to me, and said that he reaches a point where his frustration takes over. It is what it is and I KNOW there are guys who would treat me wonderfully... I'm not conceited but I have a lot going for me.. and I'm not unattractive by most standards.. natural blonde, blue eyes 5'4" and 110lbs. My personality is definitely my most attractive attribute.

paw thinks I should break it off... what does everyone else think??? I want to at least have a talk face to face and see his non-verbal actions, etc...

[lostnconfused]

is there no chance that I could be the one to break him of his "loner" lifestyle.... 3 of his close friends told me they have never seen him spend so much time with someone.. and 2 of them have known him for over 10 years....

also i finally posted some pics, but only for friends so I added all of you :) I truly value all of your advice, and look forward to checking my post... I also try my best to help others on the forums, although clearly I'm an emotional wreck... I like to think that I can still offer good advice, based on my 31 years here on earth :)

[automorphism]

is there no chance that I could be the one to break him of his "loner" lifestyle.... 3 of his close friends told me they have never seen him spend so much time with someone.. and 2 of them have known him for over 10 years....

I think it's definitely possible, and he'll probably be the better for it, but the trick is to keep him as a boyfriend and not a labour of love project. You may be able to help him grow as a person a bit, but can you fall in love with and have fun with him at the same time?

I think going out to dinner is alright. Why not? I think he agreed simply because he likes you. Unfortunately like does not imply happily ever after...or even happily for a while.

[lostnconfused]

ahh... so true.. and happily for a while would even be ok with me, for now. since I'm clearly questioning whether or not to continue.

I don't want to be the person that showed him what it is like to be in a relationship, to feel and be loved or love in return, only to have him break out of his "loner shell" and move onto someone now that he has the capability.

so true, so true, could I fall in love with him while trying to "help him"? I'm not getting paid by the hour... i would be totally invested if he would give me the chance but the door is only cracked open... no chance of it being an open door in the near future, at least in my eyes.

it doesn't help that all of my friends are married and most with kids... i feel so alone and when I met him was so happy to have found someone that treatly me well, was accomplished, mature and basically made me feel like a new person... hence my first post with the thought of the gifts, etc... then everything blows up in my face... this doesn't help my depression or anxiety one bit...definitely functioning at 50% if not less on a daily basis

[kuju]

ack... so that's why you sent the friend request. I make it a habit to NOT do those things. sorry.

I really agree with the others. I think you're focusing too much on what HE wants. You'll break up with him if HE doesn't seem that into it. But if HE wants to keep going, you'll keep dragging yourself along too. If you really want to give it one more chance, YOU need to lay down the ground rules. YOU have the power here... and if you allow yourself to continue to be strung along like this, you lose the power, and lose your self-esteem. He needs to understand that the way he acted was wrong, and completely unjustified. He behaved like a child throwing a tantrum because he was inconvenienced by two minutes. Even his good friend agreed that it was out of line. It has nothing to do with one person being more emotionally invested or not: this was simple rudeness. Something that could happen between ANY two friends when one is rude and the other is not.

Also, if you should decide to break up with him, don't remain friends. This is not the kind of guy you need to stay friends with.

And try not to see yourself as 'the one who fixes him.' THAT is NOT about you. That's about him. About him wanting to change, and seriously making the effort to do so. Battered women say things similar to what you said: "95% of the time, he's great! it's the 5% of the time that he beats me that I don't like."

[ember]

Lost, I'm glad you posted again, I was wondering how you were doing.
I'm so sorry, but from what you say it just doesn't seem like this relationship is good for you. What you said about him saying you were too "emotionally invested"...that's essentially what my ex said. He said he felt I cared more for him than me and it would be unfair to continue. Also, the not being around...I doubt he was on a date, but he probably didn't want to talk at the time.

He is giving you mixed signals because he isn't sure himself. There have been several posts on these forums by guys and girls doing the same thing...they kind of want the person, but they kind of don't.

The "flip of the switch" thing...I knew a guy like this (not an ex). He actually was able to change this behavior at the age of 60 even...but it wasn't easy for him, and he was totally committed to changing it. You can't change him, nor can you really help him, unless he really wants to change.

If I were you (and of course am not) in this situation I would back off a bit. I know what it's like to care about someone who is hot and cold, and who cares about me less than I do about them. It hurts a lot. But are you really happy being treated this way?

Let us know what happens.

[lostnconfused]

right, i don't want to be the one who fixes him.... and i don't think he would ever be violent towards me, although my ex, of almost 3 years thinks he may have that tendency from what i've told him.

as for the friends.. i would remain friends for other reasons.. we know a LOT of the same people and we all hang out together on the weekends... i would be fine around him as a friend since I am not in love with him.. it might be a bit awkward at first.. and i'm willing to bet more for him than me, since I am very outgoing and could talk to a wall for an hour if I had to.. i can barely sit still as it is and a social gathering that included the 2 of us wouldn't phase me or hurt my feelings... unless of course, 3 days later another woman came into the picture.. which i highly doubt..

his friends said b4 me, its been 2 years since they've seen a girl he's hung out with... i suppose that speaks for itself. I also told him a few weeks ago when we had our first "talk" that I would be cool as friends and he said it would be an adjustment for him but that no matter what he wants me in his life...

I sit here typing this, knowing he's fast asleep, not a care in the world... I suppose that shows me something (but he does smoke w%^d everyday) so I don't think falling asleep is an issue for him...

[lostnconfused]

Lost, I'm glad you posted again, I was wondering how you were doing.
I'm so sorry, but from what you say it just doesn't seem like this relationship is good for you. What you said about him saying you were too "emotionally invested"...that's essentially what my ex said. He said he felt I cared more for him than me and it would be unfair to continue. Also, the not being around...I doubt he was on a date, but he probably didn't want to talk at the time.

He is giving you mixed signals because he isn't sure himself. There have been several posts on these forums by guys and girls doing the same thing...they kind of want the person, but they kind of don't.

The "flip of the switch" thing...I knew a guy like this (not an ex). He actually was able to change this behavior at the age of 60 even...but it wasn't easy for him, and he was totally committed to changing it. You can't change him, nor can you really help him, unless he really wants to change.

If I were you (and of course am not) in this situation I would back off a bit. I know what it's like to care about someone who is hot and cold, and who cares about me less than I do about them. It hurts a lot. But are you really happy being treated this way?

Let us know what happens.

I know, everything is telling me to just break it off, but the damn small part of me still wants to try.... No, i'm NOT happy being treated this way... if he were someone who had a lot of relationships perhaps, no definitely, things would be different but he clearly doesn't know how to HAVE or BEHAVE in a relationship and that's what I'm looking for...

so you are correct... the "dinner/talk" tomorrow, if it happens will either end on a positive or negative note... 50/50... I know I deserve more yet I belittle myself and think that I can't find someone... its been 4 years since my last long term relationship and i've begun to lose hope.. I'm considering moving back to where i grew up, just to be near my family.. I feel so lost.. hence my sn.

Should I flat out tell him i'm done with this and see his reaction? his friend that was there last night said if I did that, within a few days he would be begging me to be his girlfriend.. it's not only him that need a kick in the a$%, but me as well... I feel so pathetic to have let this bother me so much :(

[ember]

If you are going to tell him you are done then you have to be prepared for it to be over and not an empty threat. You have to be prepared that he WON'T beg you to come back, and be strong enough to handle that. That is the only way that ultimatums work. But most people hate ultimatums, it backs them into a corner.

So, how about going to dinner, talking calmly, and perhaps saying something like, "I just can't continue if X keeps happening. When you do and say X, it makes me feel X. I really do care for you and I want to make it work. How can we work on this?"

His response should give you a lot of information. If he says he can't help it, then you have to be prepared for more of this behavior to continue. Has he ever considered therapy? I KNOW, before anyone slams me, that there are a lot of bogus therapists out there. But it can work, if the person finds a good one and is committed to change.

Do you know why he hasn't had many relationships? At 38, this could be a red flag. At this age it is very hard to break old habits. You tend to drag your baggage into new relationships if you don't work on it.

From your pix, you are very attractive but more important than that, you look like like a fun person (the pic of you and your mom is great). I know it's hard not to feel down and think there is nobody out there, and blame yourself...I am going through the same thing.

[lostnconfused]

after his text that he would "touch base tomorrow", i still haven't heard from him... what am I supposed to do, keep my night open in case he still wants to talk... and even worse, what if he doesn't call???

I am having major anxiety and don't even know what I want at this point... perhaps I should tell him tomorrow is better if he does call? I feel like I'm not even looking forward to seeing him...but i tend to do that when i'm angry or confused... and yes, ember I blame myself... i always do, i'm great at it.

[merker]

i havent joined in this thread yeh. Just read it and all replys and am quite "hooked" into your story

the thing it seems is certainly when he bought you all that stuff and you spent all that time together in the early stages it was the "honeymoon" period. He had all these ideas an expectations... like new girl, cuddling up watching films, nice days out, nice meals etc etc, and was pretyt much over excited by this

but as weeks passed it seems it had all become sort of stale for him, and hes not willing to put in as much effort and doesnt care as much as he used to..

look at all the times he said he would call you and delayed it or didnt bother... surely that shows you arent really on his mind much? common decency in a relationship is sticking to what planned. Like say for example he said he would call you at a certain time and something did turn up so he couldnt, the least he could do is think "oh crap, shes gonna be expecting me to call her now and i cant, i'll just leave a quick txt saying i cant" which would to some extent be acceptable.

But the amount of times he said he will call and hasnt bothered should be almost a clear message

in my honest opinion it seems the longer it goes on like this the worse you will feel at the end of it...

quite possibly as well when you said that time you were with his friends and other people he huged n kissed you and kept you close... that seems like he was doing it as a statement, as if to say to anyone else there "look im with her, keep off" instead of doing it because he is 100% into you


it does seem to me that the early stages of getting to know eachother are now over and he feels like he cant be bothered

[ConfusedMama]

Honestly IMO you guys moved WAY to fast, too soon. You invested too much of your heart and soul in this person without getting to know him first. Had you known he was someone that was very independent, would you have done and gone out of your way in all the ways you have (emotionally, mentally, physically). Based on the statement about most of your friends being married/kids etc...it sounds like you might possibly be over-analyzing everything from the getgo and also so concerned about settling down that you aren't allowing nature to take it's course.

In my opinion the guy didn't intentionally mean for it to end up this way and he just wants to get to know you. I think you probably came across "clingy" to him and therefore it's scared him away a bit. That's not to excuse that that he treated you one way for the 1st 2 weeks and then just changed. But my point is, had you not invested so much so quickly you wouldn't be in this situation most likely. Slow and steady wins the race. Fast will get you burned.

I know you think you've taken notches downward but it doesn't sound like you have emotionally/mentally. He will be able to pick up on that.....and again that's going to come across as desperation to him and turn him off. I know what it's like to just want to find that ONE person, to love you inside and out, to want that ultimate commitment. But trust me, worrying about it from day 1 of dating someone and trying to rush into a relationship will not make you fall in love with the "one" any faster.

I hope maybe I've given you a little insight. I know exactly how you feel and have been down that same road before. If you are open minded to possibly not getting married for along time or at all, I'd stay with this guy. Otherwise I'd move on to someone who is equal to your thoughts on family values.

[lostnconfused]

I read 2 books dating without drama(female author) and how to catch and keep a man (male author) just finished them before I met this guy.

I believe that i truly don't give off the needy vibe, or clingy.. we talked about our feelings on marriage and kids (not applying to him and I, just in general)

If you've read all the posts, god bless you there's certainly a lot of them.

I 100% agree with you Confused Mama.. we moved WAAAY to fast. And in fact, my last relationship was this way but the tables were turned, he was pushing for a committment and I didn't want it... he was younger and not established and I didn't see him as someone that I could be with long term.

That said, current guy WAS/IS someone I could have seen that with.. hence you saying I should have just taken things one day at a time.. this is CLEARLY what he is doing.

RED FLAG: that all of you have mentioned.. yes, only 2 relationships and he's 38. Don't know what to make of it and i've not written what his profession is here yet but I might as well spill the beans.. He is a DR. so as far as therapy, h**L would have to freeze over b4 he would go.

He admits he has a lot of issues and told me flat out that he would be content being alone the rest of his life... but that certainly could be a front.

I haven't heard from him today, we had plans to "talk", as i said above.. no call, no text. at this point, if I do hear from him i'm going to say i'm busy tonight. However, I feel like i won't hear from him..

I need to get some closure on this soon... thursday night we play on the same volleyball league and my emotions are all over the place.. i'm very good at not letting anyone see this. However, I did call my Dr today because I believe my anxiety medication has stopped working.. this doesn't help matters.

He may just need a few days to "gather his thoughts", as he put it yesterday when we spoke briefly and he said he would call back but didn't.. then a text saying.. got caught up at hospital will touch base tomorrow (today)

His hang-ups with relationships are something I've never encountered before except from a "player" or ladies man. Why make all these plans for the summer, trips etc and then tell me I fail to recognize when he needs his alone time.. my bag was packed and by the door sunday night when he "flipped out" and said to drive his friend home. I had no intention of staying, we discussed b4 and sunday nights we spend alone.

He did say he never meant to hurt me and apologized repeatedly...he also said that the only issue we have is "me failing to recognize his "hints" that he wants to be alone".., but always in a raised voice and nasty tone.. (face to face his eyes looked crazed) what am I a freakin mind-reader???

I could go on forever so i'll just stop here... please feel free to add more posts, it's the highlight of my day, I love this forum and don't know what I would do without it.

[lostnconfused]

quite possibly as well when you said that time you were with his friends and other people he huged n kissed you and kept you close... that seems like he was doing it as a statement, as if to say to anyone else there "look im with her, keep off" instead of doing it because he is 100% into you

I'm not sure, he is affectionate when no one is around also, little things like he saw I was cold on sunday and brought out a sweatshirt and said what's up babe, are you having a good day, kissing me on the forehead...

he's just so confusing!!!!!

[kuju]

well, all I can say right now that I haven't said before is: if he apologizes for not calling you, just say something like "Oh, well, thanks. But I went out anyway.

That is, something that won`t make him think that you spent the evening waiting for his stupid call.

[jagdpanther]

I have been on sharp end of the mixed signals with my now ex.

I have to say first, that we did rush in too fast and I probably on rebound from previous relationship.

That said, it appeared that I was more into her than she me, and the push pull dynamic set in

But when the person we love doesn’t seem to (or we perceive it that way) want us as much as we want them, we lose that sense of security and our needs for reassurance for them intensify. This is when push/pull dynamics set in.
What to do? Recognize that push/pull never works, it only intensifies unequal positions on both ends. Instead pursue mutuality. Remain symmetrical with the other person. Or if we are truly being neglected, we need to get out so that we can find someone else to have a mutual relationship with.


And I fell into this trap. The more she pulled back, the more I pushed. She in the end did not return texts/calls, or was at least deliberately erratic, and giving out mixed signals.

strange thing is, when I pulled back, she would then panic and say that I was ignoring her.

Personally, I think she did not know what she wanted and she had serious baggage from past.

As said, you cant change his actions, at least not directly. But you can get off the merry go round, and change what you do.

I would back off and see what happens.

This hot and cold treatment is nothing short of emotional torture, and I could not take it any more. I feel that you have reached your limit too.

we want mutuality, to know that our loved one, can be consistent. How the heck can you go forward with someone who is a yo-yo .

[Paw]

Sorry to say it, but this guy's a weirdo. It's my policy not to date "fixer-uppers." What's the plan? Stay friends with him until you convince him to stop being "a loner" (read: antisocial and rude) all the while having a crush on him? Doesn't sound like a good idea. You're not his mom or his psychologist. Heck, you're not even his FRIEND, really. (If you are, he's a bad friend.)

"A double minded man is unstable in all his ways." -James 1:8

[lostnconfused]

He did call... and the message he left (i was in a training session with a client) was like NOTHING happened.. he asked if I wanted to go see a movie and grab dinner... didn't even mention "talking"

I called back, said the girls were over and that I was going to call it an early night... he asked if we could do dinner and a movie tonight, I said, yeah I'm done around 5 and then said I had to go.

I'm NOT going to bring up the "talk"... the way I look at it, it's beating a dead horse. I'm going to take it day by day and if he EVER speaks to me that way again, I promise (myself and all of you!) to not date him anymore.

I also was introduced to someone a few weeks ago through a client and since me and this guy were "exclusive but no title", I declined the date.. I'm thinking maybe I should go?

If this guy can't call me his girlfriend, and then after he says he wants to talk, calls and wants to see a movie, clearly he IS a weirdo. although I do still have feelings for him, they aren't the same... the past few days i've had my eyes "opened", esp thanks to all of you on this forum :)

This should be an interesting evening ahead of me..wondering if he will bring up "the talk" or what happened sunday night and if he doesn't, how he acts.. either way i'm NOT staying at his place tonight.. going to say I have an early appointment and need to sleep home (normally would stay).. will def post after I get back from our "date"

[lostnconfused]

"A double minded man is unstable in all his ways." -James 1:8

Paw, so on-point! cheers :)

[Paw]

Paw, so on-point! cheers :)

You say that like it was my wisdom. ;) Can't take credit for that one, haha. (*Looking waywardly toward sky*) lol.

I really don't like this guy for you. I mean, I wish you the best, but GO ON THE OTHER DATE! At the very most, it will bring up the "talk" you're avoiding. By the way sis, nobody ever solved anything by pretending it didn't exist and "taking it day by day." That's not forgiveness and it's not healthy. To use a simple analogy, you're driving a car that's sputtered, squeaked, and stopped on you before... instead of ditching it for a new one, you've volunteered to be its own personal mechanic and are now crossing your fingers and hoping it won't happen again. People die like that, y'know. :S

[lostnconfused]

IF YOU'RE IN FOR THE LONG READ...

well i'm HOME, from our dinner.. we didnt' make it to the movies, went to home depot,got plants for his apartment/balcony, then was too late for the movie. )which by the way was my idea because all of his plants are dying and need re-potting (a project we have been talking about doing)

Wonderful dinner & although we were not as "touch-feely" as we usually are, at one point we went outside to smoke between courses and he kissed me and it felt great, like when we first met. He def picked up on my "different behavior"

So we are getting close to where we live and i told him i had to be up early.. it was only 10:30pm, asked if he wanted to come in for a drink (since we ALWAYS hang out at his place) he said yes and then i threw in "you're a big boy, if you want to go home and you're tired, you can"

that set him off, he said...see, why do you have to say things like that, I'm just going to drop you off and go home, I have a carload of plants and i'm tired. Was what I said wrong??? I was trying to make it seem fun and a joke, implying that he could make his own decisions, have his space, trying to make light of our current "situation"... this turned up being the beginning of our TALK.
etc


He said that he didn't understand why we couldn't just have a nice night out and dinner and then not go to one another's place.. I said .. there is no reason, just thought since we haven't really seen each other you may want to actually spend an hour an my place.

we went in circles to an extent.. him saying it's not about where we hang out, it's about HOW MUCH we hang out.

He said, we both have to get up early, why can't we call it a night.. so I said, that's fine but I'm not sure how i'm feeling about what we are "doing" I said I didn't really want to bring up the talk but at that point it was too late

so he said he really likes me, but can't be a boyfriend. I said I wasn't talking about bf/gf status and that i wasn't sure what my feelings for him were.

So I said, what's next.. are we hanging this wknd, after volleyball do I come watch your softball game, etc. He said, of course if you want to. I wanted him to say, Yes I want YOU to come.

So then I laid it on the line.. i wanted to know if he still wanted to be exclusive, as in no dating anyone else... he said "I dont' want to date other people but I don't want to be in a 6 day a week "relationship".

I said, ok, so you are fine with me dating other guys... he said it's not an ideal situation but if it happens, he will decide how he feels then. I said, Name here... if you are ok with me dating other guys and being intimate with them then you are looking for a friends with benefits package... his response.. no, we are just very different.. I'm not looking to date anyone else but don't think I can be exclusive as in introduce you as my girlfriend or say that i'm not single if a friend were to ask (not female)

I played it cool and said, ok then I need some time to think about what i want because I won't be intimate with more than one person and if I start dating other people, I would let him know.. he said "ok"

I could see in his eyes all at once frustration, confusion, feelings for me and hurt. I can see the part of him that wants to try, but he brought up again that he has issues with relationships and labels. He also repeated that he thinks he could be alone the rest of his life.. I asked if he loved someone if that would change, he said absolutely. I asked why he broke up with his last gf, he said because he loved her but wasn't "in-love" with her.. cliche'

So why was she his gf? I don't know.. he said they were very casual and although he dated no one else, they saw each other a couple times a week, if that. That was about 2 years ago.

He said he values "relationships" with people more than anything and if nothing else wants to remain friends, even if I start dating someone else....If he really cared about me, he wouldn't give me the option of dating other people, right? I wonder what would happen if I did go out with this other guy and told him.. afterall guys love the chase, right?

I don't want to play a game, I would go on this date with an open mind. I was upset at first upon walking in my door but now I am thinking clearer (a bit)

He said he would pick me up for volleyball tmrw and let me know if he got enough people together to have a BBQ for the 4th, so I said... ok and if you do have a bbq, do we act as friends? he said, we act like we feel and see what happens. I kissed him, he said have a good night babe, and he waited until I was in my apartment b4 he pulled away..

WHAT do I do? I know you most of you have told me to run the other way but I just can't, I can't

[lostnconfused]

You say that like it was my wisdom. ;) :S


By the way sis, nobody ever solved anything by pretending it didn't exist and "taking it day by day."


the "talk" just ended our not dating other people so if we didn't have said talk, then I wouldn't be feeling so unworthy of a boyfriend, someone who cares enough to NOT want me to date other people

Perhaps I shouldn't have invited him in for a drink? if I had gotten out, said goodnight, none of this would have happened.

now i feel even worse... he gave me the green flag to see other people, I don't care that he made it clear he doesn't want to date but he said if that is what i need, then he wouldn't deprive me from it.

I DON'T WANT TO DATE OTHER PEOPLE AND I DONT' WANT HIM TO BE OK WITH ME DOING SO!

[kuju]

so here's the thing: is this going anywhere? is there any POINT to all this? What do you WANT for the future? Regardless of this particular guy, so you want to get married? Do you want children? You're not likely to get either with this guy.

Where does HE even see this going? It's almost as though he wants to keep the two of you in relationship limbo forever. Wants the benefits of a relationship without actually putting any effort into it.

I really don't think it's worth it.

[lostnconfused]

so here's the thing: is this going anywhere? is there any POINT to all this? What do you WANT for the future? Regardless of this particular guy, so you want to get married? Do you want children? You're not likely to get either with this guy.

Where does HE even see this going? It's almost as though he wants to keep the two of you in relationship limbo forever. Wants the benefits of a relationship without actually putting any effort into it.

I really don't think it's worth it.

ok, so at volleyball I act as though we are friends tomorrow? are you saying I shouldn't go to watch his softball game after?

all my friends have plans for this wknd... if i don't hang with him and his friends (if he HAS bbq) I will sit alone a re-play everything in my mind.. i'm an expert at this!!!!!

[kuju]

nono,... STOP replaying everythingin your head over and over.

As for how you will behave towards him, does it really matter what we say? you're going to do what you're going to do regardless. I honestly think you should get rid of this guy. He's not worth the work or frustration.

[lostnconfused]

I am so sick today, throwing up and stomach issues.. and I realized i lost my gucci sunglasses.. they were in his car door and I think they may have fallen out at some point during the night.. i sent him a text to see if he could check his car.. he's at work so haven't heard back.

I would give anything to not care and not feel this way... i'm going to volleyball no matter what, i am forcing myself... but i won't go watch his softball game, that's what gf's do.

I also dont' know what to do about this weekend.. if he has a bbq, maybe i shouldn't even go.. not many of my friends are going to be around.. maybe I should go upstate to visit my family?

I'm so hurt and confused and sick over this.... you're all probably sick and tired of me and my sob story.. i apologize, I just can't get past this right now

[Paw]

Should you really be taking it this hard? I mean, you only knew him for a couple of months. I hate to pull out my emotional scapegoat here, but maybe being so physical (read: havin' sex) does this to people? I've dated girls for a couple of months and they've treated me like crap... and I "grieved" for like a day or two and was over it.

Or maybe it's not the sex (though, you can be sure, it doesn't help...) tethering you to this guy. Maybe, in spite of all the advice you've received here and EVERYTHING inside you that you know is intelligent you still haven't come to terms with the fact that it's not going to work. You can be 100% certain that he's not fretting this much about you. You're really giving him too much thought, time, and attention.

We can all keep repeating the same advice to you all you want, but you're eventually going to have to take responsibility for what you're doing (continuing to hang out with/talk to/think about him on a daily basis) and how you're *allowing* yourself to feel.

[lostnconfused]

I know, i'm doing this to myself.. i always do.

I would like to take a complete break from him.. no contact at all but it's not possible because of volleyball.. i paid and I love to play so i'm going, unfortunately he is on the team.

If I had my damn sunglasses (so expensive otherwise i wouldn't care) and knew that i had other plans for the weekend I wouldn't be in such a state of mind.

I dont' think the sex has much to do with this.. I've been told i'm like a guy when it comes to that, not that i sleep around, but the sex doesn't always have a big effect on me emotionally..

what gets to me is the prospect of a relationship with someone who has their life together and treats me well... which he did, past tense. It's the loss of that which bothers me.

If I do end up hanging out at his bbq sat (if he has one) I can guarantee you it will be on a friend basis. Some of the days we spend together are that way already. We don't always "hook-up" or sleep together.

I need my self confidence back... i'm really trying to find it

[kuju]

couples don't always hook up or sleep together... the simple fact of your being there means that you're not on a friend basis.

[ember]

I know how it feels, believe me.
He likes you but doesn't want a 6 day a week relationship? He would have a hard time saying he wasn't single? He is somewhat Ok with you seeing other people?
He is just not that into you. I'm so sorry. Like I said, I know what it's like to care about someone who doesn't care as much back.
I had to (and still have to) see my ex every day at work knowing this, and knowing he has a new GF.
You CAN get over it. Take care of yourself.

[Paw]

couples don't always hook up or sleep together... the simple fact of your being there means that you're not on a friend basis.

QFT! Kuju ftw.

[JoeShmoe]

If I had my damn sunglasses (so expensive otherwise i wouldn't care) and knew that i had other plans for the weekend I wouldn't be in such a state of mind.





LOL....the sunglasses statements you make dont go unnoticed. Do losing your sunglasses (gucci!!) really send you into that kind of state?

You sound like a person who has spent most of your time with a guy who you know will never commit to you. but like your love affair with Gucci this DOCTOR is quite a catch. He has always been quite clear with you and despite spending 1K on you initially (did that include the Gucci glasses?) has never made a committment to you.

Your anxiety I'm sure has rubbed him the wrong way. for a committment phobic guy it's the number one that will chase a woman away. j

YOu dont sound like a bad woman. He is not a bad guy. The mix is just toxic.

[edelweiss]

Hi lostnconfused,

My summary of the situation, for what it's worth, is that you are very mismatched as a potential "couple", and so I wonder if pursuing this would end in heartache, and dwelling on things is just prolonging that heartache. I think what has happened here is that a messy situation has developed out of a fundamental misunderstanding of each other. In some ways, I could relate to this guy at the beginning. Like me, he needs his time alone. There is nothing wrong with that. When you first wrote here, you had been dating for a month or so. At that stage, for me (and my boyfriend of almost 3 years), we were seeing each other twice or three times a week. Much more than that would have been a bit smothering for me at that stage. I explained that to him and he totally understood and adjusted his behaviour accordingly. Three years later that is one of the reasons I love him so much - he listens to me, accepts and understands my needs, and adjusts his behaviour without voicing insecurities if I bring up an issue that I have. It is a matter, I believe, of strong self-confidence. As a consequence of his easy-going nature, I want to spend more and more time with him because I find it so enjoyable!

Conversely, this guy has expressed an intimacy issue that he has, four weeks or so into a potential relationship, and you worry about it, deal with it badly, and end up bringing in ideas like fearing that you're pursuing a relationship for no reason, potentially not wanting to continue with the relationship, asking how he would feel if you dated other people, etc. Four weeks in, if you're suggesting that you want to date other people (which is how he would see it), then he might not feel like he's in a situation where he should be dictating whether or not that's acceptable, especially if he's generally a rather aloof person to begin with. But now you despair because "he wants you to date other people", whereas my impression is that this is an idea you introduced entirely of your own accord. He only said that he was not yet comfortable with the idea of being boyfriend/ girlfriend, which is how I also felt one month into my current relationship. Instead of accommodating his needs, it sounds like you've pushed them, challenged them, or couldn't resist contacting him more than he wanted. This is why I feel you are mismatched: his personality makes you feel insecure. You don't seem confident with the idea that someone might be different (or have difficulties) in the way that they approach relationships, compared to you.

An example that I could relate to was when you spent Thursday, Friday, Saturday, and then Sunday together. One month into a relationship I would be feeling quite smothered by that and needing some time to myself to recharge. You, on the other hand (perhaps a more healthy and common perspective) were quite happy to remain in each other's company. He responded to the stress of the situation by snapping. HOWEVER, I agree with you and his friend that his reaction was unacceptable and a red flag. It showed a lack of respect for you and I'm sure if you pursued a long-term relationship with this guy he would end up revealing a Jekyll and Hyde character, as he grew more comfortable. He's 38 and still has major issues with relationships. I'm 23 and I've dealt with my comparatively small issues!

It seems that he flashed his money to "woo" you in the early dating stages. $1000 for a present for someone he barely knows is, to my mind, excessive and ridiculous. I wonder if you are hung up on this guy because he seems "put together", solvent, and in a prestigious profession? Would you be so hung up on him, despite his apparent poor and erratic treatment of you, if he were a sewerage worker, for instance? I can tell you from personal experience that his profession should mean nothing. First, I started this year as a medical student (I've now quit! It was not the right profession for me), and was surprised to learn that there seemed to be many MORE "assholes" than average in the course. Jocks wanting to take up a profession to attract women, or make money, or to drive an expensive car, or to have people look up to them, or who have superiority complexes because they think they're amazingly intelligent... there is no reason to be impressed by someone purely because they're a doctor. Second, my friend is engaged to a doctor, and is miserable. She cares for him but he never has time for her and so she feels emotionally alone, despite the fact that he can provide financially and so she will probably remain in the relationship. She now takes anti-depressants and anti-anxiety medication. If you're unhappy already, in what is supposedly the "honeymoon" stage of a relationship, then things aren't going to get better when he starts taking you for granted.

So, to summarise my ramblings:

1. I think you're mismatched in terms of the way you express yourselves emotionally and deal with relationships. He can't satisfy you, and you can't be patient with his needs whilst remaining confident about yourself. I don't think you'd be happy together in the long-term.

2. Still, I don't think his problem is as simple as needing time to himself. I think he secretly looks down on you and most people, as evidenced by the patronising tone he uses when he "snaps" at you or criticises you. Plus he has only had 2 relationships in nearly 40 years, neither of which seemed particularly emotionally close.

3. I can understand, though, your situation. Being part of a happy couple is a fulfilling thing and a way that you can enjoy your spare time. You may have aspirations to be in a stable couple unit and to start a family, and in some ways this guy fulfills your criteria in a way that most men haven't. You might be reluctant to "let this go" so easily.

4. Ultimately no-one is perfect and many people end up in relationships that start off happy and end up being unfulfilling. Maybe you can work this out by accommodating this guy's needs instead of feeling insecure about them and assuming that the things he says means he doesn't value you and wants to cheat. But he seems like a not-very-nice person deep down, anyway. And it does kind of sound from your perspective that whatever you both had is now "over".

[AustiN]

hi lol i have spent last 20 min reading through all this, very interesting indeed, and from a guys perspective, one thing caught my eye out of it all and that was, would you be with this guy and take him seriously and allow him to turn you off and on so to speak if he did not have the financial success he evidently does?

just saying because I'm only 21, but no guy tells the girl he is into that she can "date other people" i mean it just is not done in an even remotely healthy relationship, and this guy can't even qualify this as a relationship to begin with lol... I guess what I'm saying is it looks to me as if you are allowing all these things that you would likely otherwise never tolerate simply because this guy unlike the others is well established, and yes i know ur older than me but you shouldn't make such compromises just because the guy is established, he needs to play by the most basic set of rules, and so far he isn't

[merker]

what i can put it down to relates to the honeymoon period as i mention before, where it was all a new thing, both people are on their best behaviour and everything seems so perfect, but as time has gone on you are potentially experiencing a clash of personalitys which no matter what way you go around it wont work...

the whole thing seems to be affecting you more than him, like when you wait for him to call and he doesnt,

it seems you both have a different way of thinking about the relationship and thats a lethal combination i know that from what iv been through a while back, i remember being in a similar thing where we both had different personalitys, we would have many disagreements because of different views, arguments would never end because we were both sutbborn and they hinted and pointed out that it wouldnt work, of course i was upset and stupidly ignored that and we tried again and again until 1 day they told me plain and simple that things have got worse and it has to be the end. Certainly i took that worse than what i would of if it had ended when she 1st pointed out how we are different people


completely does seem you are better off without

[lostnconfused]

ok, so i was off the forum for a couple days.. to sum it up.. never heard from him friday when we had tentative plans to re-do his balcony.

in response to some of you, no i was not into the money, i've never been materialistic and he did NOT get me the sunglasses.. I bought them myself when i was in the coroporate world.

Yes, I may have been more into the idea of "him", than actually he, himself. since it was 4th of july wknd and it was a given he would have a party, i did't contact him AT ALL.. he sent me a text on satuday night saying " I needed to chill today, I hope you understand" I didn't respond

then today he calls, i don't answer and he leaves a voicemail saying that he wants to talk to me, and to call when i have a chance.. i didn't.. figured i would just see him at volleyball thursday

then i get a text tonight at 830 saying.."can we talk?, if you want to , call me when u can.. i'm sorry if I hurt you in any way and I hope you understand if I can't give you what you deserve and need.. i hope you know that this is no reflection about how I feel about you or our relationship.. I just have major issues to work on.

I waited an hour (my cell phone died and had to borrow a friends so i have a working phone for my business) I called back, even though I didn't have much to say.. and he didn't answer!!! granted it was an hour later and usually past the time he goes to sleep.. i left a voicemail and said "hey, it's "", saw your text and that you wanted to talk, if you're still up give me a call"

NOW i'm kicked myself for even calling... he is on call since he is a dr, his phone is on until 11pm for his practice... perhaps by the time i called he was too tired to get "into a conversation"...

either way, i'm wishing I didn't call... I went the ENTIRE weekend , friday and today included not responding to anything... WHY did I call and should I have left a voicemail?

I decided this past wknd that I was really just more into the idea of a boyfriend and new people to hang out with.. not because he is a DR, I could care less how much $ someone makes.. I left a 6 figure job to start my own pet care business and now make less then 20K.

was he just looking for me to finally respond so that he could have the "upper hand" I would give anything,anything to take that call back... AND the voicemail!

[JoeShmoe]

In all my experience with women the superficial ones never admitt to being superficial. There behavour never matches their self anaylsis.

You got a rich player buying you things ( he spent 1K on me and he barely knew me!!!!!). And your gucci glasses bit was classic. And him being a DR. is so typical of women like you.

Now your beating yourself up because you called. You cant help yourself with this guy. It's like a crack addict looking at a hit and finally taking it.

[lostnconfused]

He called me back, we spoke about our weekends, I told him I was fine with being friends, that we rushed into things and that if he can't have a relationship then friendship is the only other option..

no friends with benefits. He agreed, he also said he would pick me up for volleyball thursday.. said he would call when he was on his way.

I feel relieved on one hand but still hurt on the other... yes, I know this guy wasn't right for me... but what if the fact that we rushed into it is what ruined it? I suppose I should take things slower with the next guy I date?

I also will be very hurt if he does start to seriously date someone, although I doubt he will, looking at his track record. not to be conceited but I am a bit out of his league (according to my friends and his)... but I know looks don't mean anything if you don't care about the person

He said he can't give me want I deserve and want... story of my life for the past 8 years. Any advice on how to act towards him when I see him thursday?

I'm guessing I shouldn't bring ANYTHING up regarding the past and just "be friends" as we agreed.

I just still feel hurt that he could blow me off for the entire holiday weekend when we had plans.. and also i suppose our trip in august isn't happening.. even though I won it on a bet.

hmmmm... some words of wisdom now that i've done what all of you said, and broke it off.. I need a boost of confidence

[lostnconfused]

In all my experience with women the superficial ones never admitt to being superficial. There behavour never matches their self anaylsis.

You got a rich player buying you things ( he spent 1K on me and he barely knew me!!!!!). And your gucci glasses bit was classic. And him being a DR. is so typical of women like you.

Now your beating yourself up because you called. You cant help yourself with this guy. It's like a crack addict looking at a hit and finally taking it.

you don't even know me, and i was worried about my glasses because i can't afford another pair, I bought them when i had a wonderful job.. i started my own business and took over an 80K paycut.. if you think i'm materialistic, then don't bother reading my posts

I am here for support and advice, not to be kicked and feel worse..

[lostnconfused]

Hi lostnconfused,



So, to summarise my ramblings:

1. I think you're mismatched in terms of the way you express yourselves emotionally and deal with relationships. He can't satisfy you, and you can't be patient with his needs whilst remaining confident about yourself. I don't think you'd be happy together in the long-term.

2. Still, I don't think his problem is as simple as needing time to himself. I think he secretly looks down on you and most people, as evidenced by the patronising tone he uses when he "snaps" at you or criticises you. Plus he has only had 2 relationships in nearly 40 years, neither of which seemed particularly emotionally close.

3. I can understand, though, your situation. Being part of a happy couple is a fulfilling thing and a way that you can enjoy your spare time. You may have aspirations to be in a stable couple unit and to start a family, and in some ways this guy fulfills your criteria in a way that most men haven't. You might be reluctant to "let this go" so easily.

4. Ultimately no-one is perfect and many people end up in relationships that start off happy and end up being unfulfilling. Maybe you can work this out by accommodating this guy's needs instead of feeling insecure about them and assuming that the things he says means he doesn't value you and wants to cheat. But he seems like a not-very-nice person deep down, anyway. And it does kind of sound from your perspective that whatever you both had is now "over".

Edel,

Yes, you are correct... I did bring up the dating other people.. i rushed it.. at least i know now I won't make the same mistake again. I also told him last night that I would like to return the gifts, that I thought it was excessive and he refused, he said knew I was having a hard time with my business and wanted to give me something that I would enjoy.. part of it was $500 worth of advertising for my business (very thoughtful)

The reason i brought up dating other people so soon was because of his track record of 2 relationships in his whole life and I didn't want to waste my time.. he also said he's never been in love. He admits he has major issues with himself, his life, everything.. and he hates that people call him "the doctor", he doesn't like being defined by that, but it's what he does, so who the hell know what else his hang-ups are

I know that Joe-shmoe thinks i'm materialistic and stereotyped me into "women like me" but I am not, my last boyfriend of 3 years was unemployed and I loved him no matter what..i suppose if I didn't put that my sunglasses were "gucci" it wouldn't have sparked his rant, either way i just wanted my things, it was more of a closure, no need to get in contact with him, etc...

so I will see him on thursday and perhaps if we remain friends at a bbq or 2...

the more I think about it, I wasn't that into him, dr or not, $ or not.. it was nice to "have someone" and that isn't right either. My confidence is very low right now. I used to be very self confident, but my last 3 relationships have just knocked me down so much that i question every move I make, and I suppose trying to hide it doesn't always work.. guys can tell.

I'm very outgoing and a people person, I'm the social butterfly at any party and love people, I just can't seem to find a guy that thinks i'm right for them and it hurts, it hurts really bad.

thank you for your post, i read it 3 times and you are fantastic

[merker]

its better to cut contact 100% and only really talk if so see him at volleyball,

its that pattern that keeps going over and over, if you keep in contact the same thing which gets you frustrated will keep happening over and over again

tell him you want to cut contact, then perhaps when you bopth have moved on fully you can think of being friends

[kuju]

I agree with Merker. it's okay to SEE him at volleyball, but it certainly isn't okay to get a ride from him to volleyball. You need to distance yourself! If you go to another friend's BBQ, and he happens to be there, then say "hi" and chat for a minute if you like, but then work the crowd and talk with other people. Don't stand by him, don't eat with him, and don't go home with him! Without distance, you're just keeping yourself in the same confusing limbo.

[AustiN]

yea if you want him back or him to perhaps realize his wrongs and try to remedy them you have to be you're own person again but not entirely cut him off ya know

[JoeShmoe]

you don't even know me, and i was worried about my glasses because i can't afford another pair, I bought them when i had a wonderful job.. i started my own business and took over an 80K paycut.. if you think i'm materialistic, then don't bother reading my posts

I am here for support and advice, not to be kicked and feel worse..

I'm telling you the truth as I see it. If you want glossy answers why dont you just write your own?

You go on and on about your gucci glasses. Have you ever thought how irrelevant that is to the subject matter? It's more relevant in regards to your superficial status.

You remind me of a bird that has been stepped on a bunch of times. The guy you see is more of a lion and he is devouring you. He wants you to continue to chase him and plays games with you. I think he does it subconsciously. It is who he is.

You should step back and build yourself up. Do some spiritual practises/yoga. Find yourself. Then you wont come across as someone so desperate.

[edelweiss]

Edel,

Yes, you are correct... I did bring up the dating other people.. i rushed it.. at least i know now I won't make the same mistake again. I also told him last night that I would like to return the gifts, that I thought it was excessive and he refused, he said knew I was having a hard time with my business and wanted to give me something that I would enjoy.. part of it was $500 worth of advertising for my business (very thoughtful)

The reason i brought up dating other people so soon was because of his track record of 2 relationships in his whole life and I didn't want to waste my time.. he also said he's never been in love. He admits he has major issues with himself, his life, everything.. and he hates that people call him "the doctor", he doesn't like being defined by that, but it's what he does, so who the hell know what else his hang-ups are

I know that Joe-shmoe thinks i'm materialistic and stereotyped me into "women like me" but I am not, my last boyfriend of 3 years was unemployed and I loved him no matter what..i suppose if I didn't put that my sunglasses were "gucci" it wouldn't have sparked his rant, either way i just wanted my things, it was more of a closure, no need to get in contact with him, etc...

so I will see him on thursday and perhaps if we remain friends at a bbq or 2...

the more I think about it, I wasn't that into him, dr or not, $ or not.. it was nice to "have someone" and that isn't right either. My confidence is very low right now. I used to be very self confident, but my last 3 relationships have just knocked me down so much that i question every move I make, and I suppose trying to hide it doesn't always work.. guys can tell.

I'm very outgoing and a people person, I'm the social butterfly at any party and love people, I just can't seem to find a guy that thinks i'm right for them and it hurts, it hurts really bad.

thank you for your post, i read it 3 times and you are fantastic

I'm glad that my post helped but I'm sorry that you're feeling low at the moment. Don't worry about what other people here might say, you know yourself and ultimately they are just Internet personas speculating, you don't have any reason whatsoever to be affected by the negative speculation of someone who doesn't know you.

You have lots of reasons to feel confident about yourself - I've noticed lots of nice personal qualities of yours through your posts - and I think you should start making an effort to tell yourself good things about yourself every day, and focus on challenging yourself by taking up new activities and putting your skills into practice, so that you can build your self esteem in a way that is permanent. I've noticed that when you talk about yourself you often go back to your looks as an affirmation of your worth - "I'm out of his league anyway, people say I'm attractive" or "I don't understand why he's acting this way, I'm blonde and attractive". I think it's really dangerous to rely on your looks as a measure of your worth because when you get older, you'll lose your looks, as we all will, and really struggle to cope. Here are some great qualities of yours that I noticed through your posts:

- You're very articulate and you know how to spell!
- You're a highly skilled person who managed to score a high-paying and competitive corporate job
- You love animals
- You believe in following your passions
- You're considerate (you continue updating us about how things are going)
- You believe in, and act on, the idea of a "work-life balance" (volleyball) - a very hard thing to do for some people (e.g., me!!!)
- You get along really well with people

... etc. Try writing down one new good thing about yourself every day. It will force you to get into a positive mindset. And don't pin your self-confidence on having an enduring relationship with someone of the opposite sex. These days, people are settling down much later in life. Remember that all relationships except for one (if that!) are going to fail. Take up lots of extra-curricular activities, as you already are, maybe volunteer for an organisation now and then, and you'll meet lots of new people and have a fun and full life, whatever ends up happening... I think you should just focus on being a nice and well-adjusted friend to this guy... sounds like he needs a lot of emotional support!

[lostnconfused]

i'm back.. was upstate with the fam, had to put their dog to sleep...not a great weekend..

so didn't speak to him since vball last thurs...he called me yest to say he got something for me... he shows up with my birth control pills...i mentioned a few weeks ago that my insurance didn't cover it and he being a dr has access to samples.. so apparently he was thinking about me

we go to vball, play and then I stupidly don't eat dinner get very drunk and end up inviting him in and we have sex.... we talked a lot but honestly i don't remember that much of it.. he said he would call me after work today... but i texted him earlier to say that we needed to speak.

i need him to know that i can no longer hook up with him and i was the initiator without a doubt.

i did tell him that i started seeing someone but its not serious... which is not true..i did give my # to a guy last night who was very nice

then to make matters worse a friend of his (guy iw as dating) and i have been talking a lot and hung out a few times..friends only and i made the mistake of telling his friend that i mentioned to "my guy" that we watched the all star gamethe other night...his friend (who was there that night he freaked out on me) freaked out and asked why the hell i would tell him we hung out.. said "how dare you use me to get to him"... that wasn't my intention.. he had left a shirt andhat in my car and when he came to get it, the game was on.. i now feel terrible because he won't return my calls or texts and said that "my guy' will no longer trust him and that is the reason he never hangs outwith
"chicks" his friends have dated.

so now apparently we are no longer friends either... i feel so overwhelmed by everything that has happened..i'm overthe relationship.... i suppose i won't see either of them anymore... except the one i dated at vball.

i'm depressed and this is only making me worse..i also have recently acknowledged that i am addicted to painkillers that i was prescribed 4 months ago..i tried tostop taking them and couldn't function.. my dr said to taper but with the state of mind i'm in i have no control, i only feel better once i take them. In addition, my personal business is going down the drain..i lost 2 high paying clients this week and don't knowhow i'm goingto pay my $2400 in bills come august 1st...

I'm at a total loss, emotionally and physically.. i'm down to 99 lbs, can't eat, feel lonely and don't know what to do...

sorry for the long post but hopefully someone has some ideas/thoughts about how i can stop this behavior... i know dealing with my addiction is first....i spend each night drinking to feel better...mixed with painkillers just to make it through the night

doesn't help that all my friends are away this wknd and i'm going to be alone with my thoughts, depression, guilt and anxiety

[lostnconfused]

so i went to the dr and got help for the painkiller issue...its going well so far and i feel better overall.

I didn't see him last wk, vball cancelled due to rain, but he called me twice during the week to see what i was doing, then he invited me over to lay out and bbq on his balcony, i didn't return the call until monday, said i was really busy over the wkndb (which i was)

so this past wednesday he called to see what i was doing and i think he was going to invite me over to have dinner, but i told him my friends were here and we were watching the yanks game.

last night he didn't come to volleyball but called me before and said to meet up with him and his friends for drinks afterwards... 2 of the friends were girls and when i showed up, he basically was like a magnet to me... the girls were asking if i was his gf, etc... they weren't happy apparently that i showed up

so the night goes well, i knew a lot of ppl at the bar..then before i know it, everyone has left when i come back from the bathroom except my "guy" and the 2 girls... he gave them the # for a cab and asked me if i wanted to hang out at his place... I went and spent the night... no sex but some physical stuff....

now tmrw his brother is having a bbq which he invited me and my friends to.... so here are my questions to all of you:

1. basically he is getting "friends with benefits" if i keep doing this every thursday SO, if i don't feel bad about it or regret it, should I continue friend with bene's?

2. should i go to the bbq? if so, should i drive myself so it doesn't look like i'm coming "with" him...also, i can leave when i want and won't be tempted to go back to his place if i'm in his car (ie last night)...willpower goes down the drain for me once i'm with him

3. Am I setting myself up for another world of hurt if I continue to see him regularly? I know some of you said to only see him at volleyball but we have a lot of friends in common.... worst case scenario is me having feelings again, only to be friends with benefits....but for some reason i feel like he has done some thinking and possibly this is his way of getting back to just "dating" after we rushed into things....

could that be true or is it my wishful thinking?

my best friend and my ex (who is my best guy friend) both said that i should NOT continue to hook up with him... esp my ex...he said i'm an idiot for my decisions and that the guy is getting EXACTLY what he wanted... me around when it's convenient and sex without any strings attached... he thinks i shouldn't even be friends with him, period

[lostnconfused]

I agree with Merker. it's okay to SEE him at volleyball, but it certainly isn't okay to get a ride from him to volleyball. You need to distance yourself! If you go to another friend's BBQ, and he happens to be there, then say "hi" and chat for a minute if you like, but then work the crowd and talk with other people. Don't stand by him, don't eat with him, and don't go home with him! Without distance, you're just keeping yourself in the same confusing limbo.


kuju..i'm doing exactly what you said not to do :( someone kick me now!!!!!

[kuju]

Hi. This is your reality check: stop being an idiot.

[lostnconfused]

Thanks Kuju, i needed that.... but i have to ask... do i go to the bqq? all our mutual friends are going... BUT it's at his brothers house :( also, didn't hear from him today so it's possible he won't even call tmrw to let me know where it is or what time it starts... which would really be a slap in the face.. and if that does happen, idon't think i will speak to him ever again... thats just inexcusable...if thats even a word :)

[kuju]

frankly, I've stopped reading. you're starting to be stupid about the entire situation... All I read was "I did the opposite of what you said."

[merker]

thats the thing, the best way to deal with a breakup is to do what many people here have said, the only thing not listening and just doing the opposite is doing is making things worse

i mention in another post about 1 of my old breakups, if i had listened to people here about breaking contact and moving on then it would of only took a few months to get over her but instead i did what i thought was best and it ended up with me being wayy more hurt and it took 3 times longer to feel better

[Anahata]

I'm telling you the truth as I see it. If you want glossy answers why dont you just write your own?

You remind me of a bird that has been stepped on a bunch of times. The guy you see is more of a lion and he is devouring you. He wants you to continue to chase him and plays games with you. I think he does it subconsciously. It is who he is.

You should step back and build yourself up. Do some spiritual practises/yoga. Find yourself. Then you wont come across as someone so desperate.

Women (like me) who have loved *Emotionally Unavailable Men* need to read that statement.

I loved an emotionally unavailable man. Like your man, mine "gave" a lot: love, affection, referred me to amazing clients, welcomed me into his social circle, welcomed me into his professional circle, introduced me to his mother, contributed to my personal development, honored all my boundaries- respected my desire to be celibate (to date, we haven't had sex), spent many phenomenally intimate nights cuddling me in bed...

I get how confusing it is because it *feels* so perfect. I'm going to speak generally here: Powerful men oftentimes have "power personalities" (NLP). They need to have control over themselves, and control over others. One way they demonstrate control is to GIVE so much. That places them in the "power position." The problem is that they struggle with receiving. I understand how painful it is to not be received.

Powerful men are often also very lonely. I'm sure he loves your company, your affection, devotion, attention, etc. Just because he loves and enjoys this doesn't mean he is (at this time) capable of giving you what you want. You are not seeing this man clearly. Men tell us the truth. We women interpret it to fit into our lovely story. He has said he doesn't think he has ever been in love. He told you that he can't give you what you deserve. By continuing with him in this way you are actually enabling him to treat you less than you deserve to be treated. You are (subconsciously) communicating to him that this is your worth: to be treated less than. By continuing your emotional involvement with him you are enabling bad behavior and setting a precedent that you accept being treated in this manner.

"The guy you see is more of a lion and he is devouring you." I want to add to that. HE is not devouring you. Your fantasy of who he is and what you two are is what is truly devouring you. I say this because I was there, questioning and questioning, just like you.

When I accepted "reality" I saw this: an amazing man who had so much to offer me and loved me as a friend.

Another note about men who possess the control/power personality: they are terrified by women who behave "out of control." After all, they spend so much time cultivating control within themselves. It would be like a man obsessed with fitness confronting a very overweight woman. She (I'm speaking "generally" here) represents what he fears and dislikes. On one hand, he enjoys you. On the other hand, the more you appear "out of control" the less SAFE he feels with you. We all need to feel safe, especially control people. Part of their control is because they don't feel safe.

Reread all your posts. Ask yourself- is this the ranting of a desperate woman? No judgement intended- I have stood in your shoes.

How men "generally" interpret desperate women: "Holy shit! She wants to trap me into marriage & babies!" Even if that's not your intention, that is his irrational fear. Also, power/control personalities like to make the decisions and call the shots. They don't want to to feel forced/pressured/manipulated into doing something (they want to be the ones doing that! lol!). Power/control personalities enjoy the hunt, "the lion" that Joe talked about, king of the jungle, the alpha male- the hunt excites their innate masculine sensibilities makes them feel powerful. They don't want easy prey.

Think of it as the quintessential businessman: he finds difficult projects exciting and compelling, he enjoys the challenging acquisition of wealth and power.

Or think about it like a football game: The quarterback doesn't want the other team to run and score a touchdown for him! What kind of quarterback would he be? He wants to play a good game.

At this point, your man doesn't seem ready for deep intimacy. He seems capable of doing what he has always done: playing a good game. He doesn't do this because he wants to hurt you- he has already "given you the rules!" (ie told you where he stands: "I can't give you what you want.") He does it it because it's who he is- who is is willing to be, and who he chooses to be.