She (Probably) Does Not Want Kids

[hj2009]

She (Probably) Does Not Want Kids

Background:

I started dating this girl about 14 months ago while still in college (we now both work, and she is also in grad school). The relationship is going amazingly well. We sleep together pretty much every night, and do not fight often. We also have similar values, similar backgrounds, similar interests, etc, which give me hope that the relationship will last.

This is a girl that I can see myself being with for a long time. I am not interested in just dating her for a little while to have fun - I was single for a long time before I met her and had a great time doing that, but I have always seen her as a long-term partner. I told this to her a long time ago and she feels the same way. She is supposed to move in with me in June for the summer, and then we plan to move into our own apartment in the fall.

First Talk About Kids:

Earlier in the relationship I had noticed her making negative comments about having kids on several occasions - talking about how much work/money they are, talking about how annoying they can be, etc.

One day maybe 6 months ago we had a talk about the kinds of things that we wanted in the future, and the topic of having children came up. I told her that I absolutely wanted kids one day. She said that she was not sure. She knew that she didn't want kids any time soon (I don't either), but that she wasn't sure how she might feel when she was like 30.

She made several other comments of note during the talk: (1) she is very afraid of childbirth and of the money that is involved with raising children. (2) both of her parents want her to have kids - her dad specifically wants it badly. (3) she did sort of like the idea of having kids from like watching movies and fairy tales, etc as a kid.

I tried to prod her a little more to see if she was leaning in either direction, but came away thinking that she was honestly unsure about it.

Second Talk:

Recently at dinner we were talking about places that we might want to live in the future, and I made some observations about the differences between living in the city vs living in the suburbs and how there were certain places I would want to live in my 20s vs my 30s if I was going to raise a family.

She then said, "This could change, but right now, I think I could be happy if I never had kids."

She kept talking about places she might want to live, and I didn't really address her comment - but it is sticking with me.

Obviously, I am very young and I have a lot of things that I want to do before I have kids. It's very far from my radar at this point.

That being said, this is a girl that I have been extremely serious about and am still crazy about, and I'm not sure that I can stay with somebody that never wants kids. I think she could very well change her mind one day, but what if she doesn't?

Should I ask her about it or talk to her about it? I'm not even sure what I would say about it - it seems like at this point she definitely does not want kids but she is open to the idea that she might change her mind at some point. I don't know if talking to her about it would really unveil any more information about the topic.

I do sort of want to just let her know that it is important to me though, and ask her if she understands why I might want to think about the fact that she doesn't want to have kids.

Thoughts?

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Cliff Notes: Been dating for 14 months, we are both 23 years old. The relationship is going fantastically well. She is supposed to move in with me in June. She said, "Right now, I think I would be happy if I never had kids." I definitely want to have kids, and am not sure if I should address it.

[Deidre]

As a member of the childfree community, I frequently hear about what happens to relationships just like yours when the person doesn't address this issue and I have yet to hear of an instance where it did not end very badly and with tonnes of resentment. Though, I usually hear it from the other side of the story.

You see this going into the long term, you want to move in together, and it sounds like kids are a dealbreaker. You have to address this. There is no way around it. Your girlfriend may not be vehemently childfree, but rather a fence sitter, but you can't count on things going your way. That's when things end badly, sometimes years into marriage even. I can't even count the number of times I've heard "I always told him/her I didn't want/like kids, and now that we're 30 he/she suddenly thinks I ought to have changed my mind" or some variation thereof.

Your long term goals must be the same. If kids are more important to you than being with her (and I don't mean that this is a bad thing), you have to get to the bottom of this. Before you do, though, you may want to consider your options. Would you want to immediately break up with her or would you be ok to continue this relationship if she wants to, knowing it will end the day when you are ready to have a child, or some other scenario? Would you rather be with her than have kids (some people go this direction, but you have to be extremely honest with yourself here)?

[BabyDiva]

On the same token - it appears that the specific process (pregnancy and childbirth) are more her deal breakers. Would you be okay with the kids not being biologically yours? Some people aren't cut out for the baby process...they're cut out to be wonderful parents/role models for older children (school age). Perhaps adoption would be something she'd be more interested in.

Aside from that, you need to basically sit down and explain to her(once you've figured it out) if children are what you want and explain why. If she doesn't agree or cannot picture herself ever being a mother in any way - - - then the two of you should probably go your separate ways.

She may just not have that maternal drive --- and that is fine. We are all different in our decisions.

However, my advice is that if you really feel children are a part of what you want for your future and she begins to shift away from that - you probably should end things. Forcing her to have kids (or guilting her into it) or you living in a manner which you aren't fulfilled leads to resentment down the road. Moving on to people who more closely match your future plans would be most beneficial IF you two cannot agree.

Discuss it, and discuss it with the understanding your rationale may not win out. She's not wrong, just different.

[Winter_Rose]

I think that 23 is very young to be making decisions about kids. Things can definitely change in the coming years. My favorite motto is "Never say Never". When I was 23, there was no way in hell that I wanted kids, then at 28, well i was having one.... My sister, on the other hand, always wanted children, yet ended up never did having any.

In saying that, she obviously does not want to have kids anytime soon. You sound like you want to have kids in the very near future. If this is the case, well then, you would be better off finding someone who shares the same ideas as you do concerning children.

Good luck on this one.

[CatalinaAllen]

Ask her about it. It may not be that she doesn't want kids, but that she doesn't know how to deal with them or is uncomfortable around them. Also, parenting is terrifying for some of us. It's a lot easier to say "I don't want kids," than "I don't think I can raise kids," or "Parenting scares me."

She said that her stance on children could change. Don't assume that because she's ok with being childless at 23 that it'll be that way forever.

[hj2009]

I appreciate the responses, thank you!

Winter_Rose - I do NOT want kids any time soon, as I specified in my post. I am hoping to have them more around the age of 30 or so. I have too much that I want to accomplish in my 20s.

BabyDiva - I'm not sure how I feel about adoption. I think I may want a child of my own, but I am open to the idea.

I think if I have the conversation with her right now, it is highly likely that she is just going to tell me that she is not sure how she will feel in the future. What do you think I should ask her when I talk to her about it?

Also, if I decide to stay with her and see how she feels in a few years, what do I do if she says she is still unsure? Obviously this is assuming a lot, but say we end up dating 3 more years. At that point, we might be considering marriage, but she would still only be 26 and could potentially still not be sure. I do not think I could marry somebody without knowing their thoughts on children.

[hj2009]

Catalina,

She babysits so I don't think she is too uncomfortable around them. I have babysat with her as well and she seems to be pretty good at it.

I think she looks at it mostly from a practical standpoint and is simply scared of a few things. (1) childbirth - she has mentioned numerous times that if she ever did get pregnant, she would ONLY have a c section because of a history of large babies in her family. i think she is probably also worried about how it might affect her body. (2) money - she is frightened of all of the money involved with raising kids. she has talked about this a number of times as well.

I think all of these concerns are very valid and reasonable, by the way. It does, however, make me upset when she talks about them.

[Winter_Rose]

Sorry, i must have skimmed over that part of your post.

Well, i do not see what the problem is now, if she does not want children now and you don't. If you both are still together and she does not want children and you do, well then there is a problem. But now, there is not.

I think that you are worrying about something that is too far off in the future for either of you to think about right now. If you love her and she loves you and you have a great relationship, I say go for it. Things change and people change over time.

Just my opinion....

[hj2009]

Winter Rose - sorry, did not mean to sound harsh to you at all.

What do you think about Deidre's post? Do you think it is reasonable for me to be worried that a situation like that could happen?

Also, why do you think your feelings about having kids changed? When you were 23, did you not want kids THEN, or did you think that you NEVER wanted them?

[Carnation]

It's very true that people can change their decision on wanting kids, but it will come with age OR finding the right person.

My sister never wanted to have kids OR get married, and I didn't blame her considering all the wonderful candidates she had. Then she met her current boyfriend, and now she's absolutly open to both ideas.

Another case is my friend. She and her husband never wanted to have kids, and even after she divorced him she didn't want any. Her mind didn't change til she married one of her best friends and then became pregnant. She says that it was the best thing that happened to her.

It can absolutly depend on the person they consider spending the rest of their life with. My friend once said (About her ex) that she wouldn't want to raise her child with the wrong person. I'm not saying that's what your girlfriend is thinking, but you never know.

My advice is talk more about this, don't just take little quips of comments she makes. Have a full and deeps discussion about it, and let her know this is somthing you want.

[Winter_Rose]

Well yes, a situation like Deidre said could of course happen. Years down the road, she could very well feel the same way that she does now.

"She said that she was not sure. She knew that she didn't want kids any time soon (I don't either), but that she wasn't sure how she might feel when she was like 30."

"This could change, but right now, I think I could be happy if I never had kids."

To me, this does not sound like someone who is against having children, but not now, nor anytime soon. But it does not say that she is against the idea.

As carnation said too, people change their minds on children because of age or because of finding the right person. I don't know what more can be added on that, because it is very true.

As for me, well mine was abit different of a case, so for comparison reasons, I do not think that I feel like talking about it tonight...LOL...

[wearsome]

enjoy your relationship and youth for a while. talk about the "kids" later if you believe you can deal parting with someone like her, in case she will not change her mind.

[lily_gal]

I agree with Wearsome...why dont you just enjoy and be happy together if it works. I am 26 and I dont have kids, but I tell you when I was 23 I didn't want kids and also then and now I can say I can be happy if I never have kids either. It is true that people can change their mind about these kind of things all the time, it happens. As long as you know she likes being around kids then she can feel differently later on. Some people just dont like being arounds kids and ya they prob dont want kids. I also want to say that whether someone likes it or not you should be able to say I can be happy without kids because some women don't even know if they can have kids or some sadly lose it during complications. I myself love kids hope I can have them healthy but I dont even know if I can have kids or if I want them with a specific person.

you know life can be unexpecting sometimes....the ones who have always adored kids sometimes never have and the ones who never thought or wanted it just happens and they embrace it. This is why having a baby is a blessing. :)

one of my cousins adores children always wanted like 5 and yet shes now 36 and no kids yet :(
my sister is a career person and never wanted kids and ended up having a child.

So my point is if you love her and see a future with her this baby issue should not get in the way. The way I see it is if shes the great girl for you.... wouldnt you want to only have a chance of having kids with only her anyway?

[Deidre]

To me, this does not sound like someone who is against having children, but not now, nor anytime soon. But it does not say that she is against the idea.
Not necessarily to me either - she sounds like a fence sitter - but on the other hand I have spoken to a great number of people who expressed fence sitter attitudes simply because they cannot fathom a world where it's okay not to want kids... and hey, this thread, PC as it is, is perpetuating that attitude ("when she gets older or meets the right person she may very well change her mind"). I also know plenty of people who knowingly express fence sitter attitudes because it means not having to argue with people who tell them "when that biological clock kicks in...", "when you[r husband dies and] you meet the RIGHT man...", "it's different when they're your own..."

I have never wanted kids. I never discussed it with my parents, unless you count a debate I had with my mother as a seven year old, but when I told them I am never having any they were hearing something they already knew. Even so, I have still talked about the possibility (of adopting) in the past, because normalcy is important to a teenager and because I couldn't express to my ex how his vision of our future made me sick to my gut. I didn't really accept my own feelings to 100% until I'd found positive role models who validated my feelings. Why should I? After all, my entire life I've been hearing "when you have kids", not "if you have kids".

Hence, tread with caution. Being on the fence means you can go either way. Wanting children is not a default of lack of determination in the other direction, especially not in this world where it's slowly getting more accepted to go without.

[isis16]

I'm going through a similar scenario but further down the line...

I met my husband when we were 20. We were inseparable right away and have always been very open with each other. I've always wanted to have kids someday and he never wanted to have kids. Neither of us wanted kids when we were 20 anyway but we talked about it. He eventually said that MAYBE in the future he MIGHT want to have kids but not anytime soon (and when the time came, he'd rather adopt where as I'd prefer to have our own if possible). But we are best friends and totally in love so we've stayed together anyway. It seemed silly to break up because of something that may or may not happen way in the future, especially since we are so good together.

We got married when we were 25. He still was not interested in having kids but he was in school still so it was understandable. We're now 28 and he's finished with school and still not ready for kids. We got a puppy and he is in LOVE with her. We've talked about kids and we both think we'd make good parents. He keeps telling me *someday* but *someday* is approaching for me, and not for him. I'm not pushing it, I'm in no huge hurry, I've been patient... but I'm starting to worry. I just can't imagine a full lifetime with no family of my own. I'm not a career person, I don't really care about my job, I just do it to get by. Everything I do lately, I'm thinking about a future family: saving money, thinking about buying a house, buying a kid-friendly car, etc. Everything he does is all for himself.

I guess I should just relax and give him time to come around. I'm just starting to worry that he never will. I mean, we're still in our 20's but I don't think we'll ever be "ready" to have kids. I don't think most people ever feel 100% "ready", you just make it work when it happens. However, at this point I'm really scared about how kids will affect our relationship. We've been together for almost 8 years now and are still very much in love and I don't want to mess that up.

I realize this isn't advice at all... I could actually use some myself :/

[MasterXMind]

The biological clock will work in your favor.

[hj2009]

We have talked about it a few more times.

Fast forward to this week. We were talking about our timelines for the future. We currently live together, so I think it's natural to start talking about those kinds of long-term things.

Basically, she said that she would be pretty disappointed if we were not engaged in the next 2 years. She didn't give me a drop-dead time that I needed to do it by (which I appreciate), but i can tell that she would not wait more than 2 years.

I think that's fine, and I told her so. I also told her that I am absolutely not going to ask her to marry me without knowing what she wants to do on the kids issue. I do not want to be in a marriage where one person expects to have kids, and it never happens. I want to know with some certainty beforehand what she wants.

She said that she's not sure if she will know or not within the next 2 years.

Hence, my dilemma. I now have 2 years to pull the trigger and get engaged, but I'm not willing to do that without knowing her stance on kids. I find it somewhat hard to believe that she will be able to tell me within the next 2 years.

Thoughts?

She also mentioned a couple other things that I think matter:

- she says that she will absolutely never stop working to have kids. she is incredibly intelligent and wants to keep working. she says that she thinks she can create more of an impact through her work than through having kids.

- she says that she wants at least 5 years in marriage before having kids. this is fine with me (i would want it too if we got married in the next 3 or 4 years, we are just 23 years old).

it is, however, just more evidence to me that she is really uncertain and scared, and won't want to commit to this.

[edelweiss]

I think she sounds like she doesn't want to have kids but doesn't want to lose you either. Type "I regret having children" into Google (over 8 million results!)... some pretty horrible stories, particularly this one (http://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/feeling_depressed/781410-Does-anyone-else-regret-having-children). She should totally understand that you don't want to get engaged to someone who doesn't, at that time, share your ambitions in life. The only solution is for you to either break up now and try to find someone who you love who shares your ambitions, or not to get engaged until this issue is resolved. There is no point in getting engaged, then married, then divorced over this issue, just to satisfy her "engagement requirements". If you do stay together and do have children mainly because she wants you to be happy (whether she admits that or not) then I believe that you should take on most of the domestic work associated with child-rearing, because as you can see from the thread I linked to, it is mundane and can be quite soul-destroying for someone who didn't want that for their life.