Strippers/Strip Clubs

[wickedlydivine07]

I'm kinda curious to everyone's opinion on either subject because I'm in a ranting mood and I'd like to set some people straight, because a lot of people seem to misconcieve the subjects.

So what do you think of strippers?

Strip clubs?

I'd love detailed opinions so I can debate upon it.

[Harper]

I don't have any opinions on either strippers or strip joints. Strippers are like anyone else; doing their job. *shrug*

[moonangel]

I don't have a problem with them, nor do I have a problem with strippers, nor do I have a problem with guys going to strippers.

But then again, i have no interest in going to a strip club, and none of my friends do either, so I guess I'm rather apathetic when it comes to the issue.

I personally would have trouble dating a guy who regularly went to strip clubs, simply because (and maybe I'm being stereotypical here, but so be it) that kind of guy is just not my type. I.e on Facebook, this guy I know quite distantly through friends, had in his status, 'I LOVE STRIPPERS' and I photo of him with some naked chick on top of him. It was kinda gross. I don't think I could date someone like that.

[Kuky]

No problem here, what so ever. They're people, like everyone else, making a living. People who can't see past the fact that their living consists of hours of pole dancing are just shallow and monochromatic (in a "there is only good and evil, black and white" sort of way).

[automorphism]

I shall require some visual data to make a detailed assessment, plz.

I would be uncomfortable if my hypothetical girlfriend went to a male strip club, however, if there is such a thing. I guess I'm just insecure that way.

[jw1]

After the first couple of outings it is boring until last week it had been only

1. on my eighteenth birthday when I got a dance which was ok,

2. when I was in a sex store and found a free cover cupon and some money laying on the floor next to an atm poor horny bastard must have dropped it. I got a lap dance by a dancer with breasts the size of mini basket balls and got smacked in the head not fun.

3. then once a few weeks later when I didn't get a dance and left soon it was super lame

all these were years ago.

I should mention I only date and am attracted to asian women so if a club has none I would never go there I would not get a lap dance from any dancer unless she was asian there are three total at the club I went to recently and only one there I would have a lap dance from ever again so I get left alone or say no thanks alot. I think it is an interesting job though I think porn and being a prostitue are fu*ked up, dancing the women are pretty up front it's not going to go anywhere and the guys know it, so if they want to waste their money then cool. I love watching the women with there regulars I wonder what the guys say to them I feel like saying save your money for an escort the you'll get what you need. As far as the dancers go, get that money baby lol.

[Sydney123456]

I'm torn...

...and here's why.

I love the fact that porn and strip clubs are dominated by women. Men pay women to simply take off their clothes. It's unbelievable the amount of manipulation of men that happens...take my bra off, and slip me a ten. Take my panties off, slip me a twenty...hell yes! I am fully aware that my thought process is pretty twisted, but I stand by it. Women enjoying it, or pretending to enjoy it, and making money off of it.

But...I can’t seem to shake the typical “shame” part of American society. When I went (once), I felt ashamed to be there. I couldn’t tell you why. I felt bad for the women…being dogged by the crowd (yet the same crowd was tossing twenties and fifties up there!) and being naked.

Being American and talking about sexual stuff is like being a Catholic…there is an amount of guilt that follows you around that you can’t seem to get away from.

[wickedlydivine07]

Now the irony behind Sydney's comments are, I once got into a religious debate with a guy about what do I think God thinks about what I do. Well even if I held the same beliefs as the guy I told him, apparently we were put on this earth naked, so why not make money off of it?

Granted I'm not a very religious person at all but I am a very strong believer in other things. Such as fate, fate threw me into dancing and I fell in love my first night. I have to say it's probably THE most liberating experience I've ever had and I would recommend it to any woman for a short period of time. Now you have to be very very thick skinned for it not to change you for the worst to do it long term, which I have every intention of making this last a good while because I enjoy the freedom it presents to me.

I might add not only is it liberating, it's also very empowering and within the first 6 months a serious self esteem boost. Not to mention man is educational, the things you learn and even if you were already good at reading people you learn to hone those abilities to a T. Some people have asked me well what if I had a daughter and she wanted to strip, some might think me horrid but I'd encourage her to do it, however the whole time letting her know she has to be paying her way through school with it, a luxury I'm incapable of affording at the moment. Why would I let my child endure some of the things I've had to as a dancer?

1. It helps you grow up in your views of men and the world

2. It teaches you a lot

3. It's an incredible experience and a great work out all at the same time

[odie777bc]

I personally don't like strip clubs/strippers...I mean, the girls are in fact just doing they're job so I'm not gonna hold that against them, but I can't ever see myself trusting a stripper. They get paid to be fake and pretend they like you...it is an exploitation of the sexual nature of man. It is a relatively successful career and it seems to be working so don't let me stop you, but if I wanna get drunk and see breasts I'd rather buy a six-pack and watch some porn. I just don't like being lied to and that is the what the occupation seems to entail. I only pity the strippers when I see what they have to dance for and pretend to like...some guys are just fugly or mean.

[water nymph]

I have no beef with stripping or strippers but I have always been more interested in burlseque shows, simply for the costume and pagentry of it all. I figure if a woman wants to show her body that way, I really have no right to tell her not to seeing as I wouldn't want her to tell me what to do with my clothes and my body. Fair's fair in my opinion.

(I am withholding an angry, bitter feminist rant so as to not derail this thread onto the topic of the exploitation of the female body. I'll let WD respond to odie- it isn't my place)

[Harper]

I personally don't like strip clubs/strippers...I mean, the girls are in fact just doing they're job so I'm not gonna hold that against them, but I can't ever see myself trusting a stripper. They get paid to be fake and pretend they like you...it is an exploitation of the sexual nature of man. It is a relatively successful career and it seems to be working so don't let me stop you, but if I wanna get drunk and see breasts I'd rather buy a six-pack and watch some porn. I just don't like being lied to and that is the what the occupation seems to entail. I only pity the strippers when I see what they have to dance for and pretend to like...some guys are just fugly or mean.

I think it is an illusion rather than a lie. One entered into by both parties, voluntarily and consciously. A suspension of disbelief, perhaps. The only deception that I could see taking place (if indeed there is any at all) would be of the self-imposed kind.

Personally, I've no real interest in going to a strip club. It's seems a little hollow to me; emotionally speaking. I've nothing against those who do go, however, nor against those who work there. I tend to respect people by default, so I regard strippers much the same way as anyone else. There are very few vocations that I hold any ill-will towards; I'm more interested in individual people.

[The Original Taco]

Trash(y)

[kuju]

I don't feel like posting my opinion about strippers and strip clubs for the sole purpose of giving wickedlydivine someone to rant against.

[PhoenixDown]

I have nothing against them by the strippers tend to be really fucked in the head

[Wolf]

There is no sex in the champagne room.

[Ray]

I've been to the strippers, female and male (yes they do exist, some are geared towards women, some towards other men, and some both) a few times. I have more experience with the male strippers as I don't really care to watch naked women. I'm not sure what type of comments/opinions you want but I'll just unload on you.

I don't think the strip club is a fun place to go more than a couple times. The taboo of it is fun for a bit, and the nudity in a public place is exciting, but it fades fast.

The two female strip clubs I went to weren't the best, and I didn't really get the full experience, so I'm pretty limited on that count. The girls were not overly attractive, but some of them made up for it with amazing dance moves and crowd control. I'm not sure if other clubs are different, but at these clubs, the girls would strip while dancing only for a short time. They were untouchable, so it was basically watching a show. After the dance, instead of throwing flowers (or tomatoes) like a show, you threw loonies at them while they kneeled in front of you (which took at least twice as long as the dance). I just find that way too degrading to watch, so I don't like going there. One girl was practically begging the crowd for money because it was the end of the night and the people were spent. It kinda ruined the "magic."

The male strip clubs were tolerable, in that the men seemed to not have to degrade themselves for their jobs. Most of the males strippers were at least good looking, but they were mostly cocky and had the "I'm hot shit" attitude. The clubs geared towards women were fun to watch because the girls got to be involved in the show. They'd pay to go up on the stage and they could fool around with the guy while he gave them a lap dance-ish thing. (I find the double standard between the male and female strippers amusing - how it's more okay for the male strippers to be groped then the female strippers.) The gay strippers I've been to have all been practically whorehouses though. Not my cup of tea.

Despite my limited experiences, I think that the strip club industry is probably similar to the restaurant industry. There are the McDonald's, the decent sit-in ones, and then there are really high class ones. You can't really judge the whole restaurant industry (and its servers) by a few fast food places and some not-so-great restaurants, just like you can't judge the whole strip club industry (and its strippers) by a couple whorehouses and low-end places.

I have no problem with strip clubs at all, in fact I think everyone should go a few times. As for dating someone who went a lot - it would depend on which ones and what they did there. It's just like with restaurants: I would never date someone who always ate burgers and fries at fast food joints, but then I'd have no problem with someone who regularily ate healthier fast food. If I were dating someone, and they went to a strip club, it probably wouldn't bother me. I'm not sure how it could bother anyone. It's not like people go there to cheat (well, I'm sure some do, but why would you want to be dating such a person).

To sum it up: Female strip clubs make me feel sorry for the women degrading themselves. Male strip clubs are fun once in awhile because seeing (half)naked men is fun (whoo) but it's not something I would want to do very often.

[wickedlydivine07]

Odie, the irony behind your statements is simply the reason why I make money when I do, is I'm real, I'm honest. I made a thousand off a guy tonight who actually spent about 3 thousand, just because he liked my personality and the fact that I would argue with him. We spent 2 hours in VIP talking about my SO his kids, our pasts, him being a lawyer, etc and also had a long arguement about how there's no way I'm as young as I am. The last 10 minutes consisted of me laying my head on his chest while he held me about the waist.

I don't flirt with customers and I tell them if I like them or not, and if they deserve a good telling off I give it to them. Sometimes that's why I don't make money and sometimes that's why I do. I know a lot of the dancers talka bout running game and this that and the other thing especially when I complain about not making money, their favorite thing to tell me is to be nicer, I'm not going to pretend like I'm actually interested in someone that I'm not. Now I told tonights guy from the get go that I liked him because I did, I was in an arguementative mood and he was too so we clicked very well. For me I sell the truth, the companionship, and sometimes the fantasy but only for a little while and they know damn good and well I'm going home to the love of my life.

Ray,
You should really try going to a better club. The irony behind what you said in male vs female strip clubs it's quite the opposite in New Orleans the guys hide nothing and if couples work together they fuck in front of people. There's only one club that I know of and it's geared towards both men and women and the things they do are just nasty. I have 3 male stripper friends.

Now in a high dollar high class club like the one I work at, we have some of the best showgirls in the south and a couple of the best in the country, so sufficed to say we put on a show when we're on stage. I'm huge on polework, I could do an entire 2 song set barely touching the stage if I felt like. We have the national '07 pole princess that works at our club and I placed fourth this year but that's a long story I won't go into.

[kuju]

you really like irony.

[Sydney123456]

I wish you would find a diff phrase than "the irony behind what you say."

No reason...just getting a little annoying.

[wickedlydivine07]

Yea kinda, and I was really really tired when I replied last night and wasn't thinking about my own redundancy.

[sweet-one]

Not to mention man is educational, the things you learn and even if you were already good at reading people you learn to hone those abilities to a T. Some people have asked me well what if I had a daughter and she wanted to strip, some might think me horrid but I'd encourage her to do it, however the whole time letting her know she has to be paying her way through school with it, a luxury I'm incapable of affording at the moment. Why would I let my child endure some of the things I've had to as a dancer?

1. It helps you grow up in your views of men and the world

2. It teaches you a lot

3. It's an incredible experience and a great work out all at the same time

I want my child to respect themselves enough to use their brain instead of their body to have an impact on this life. I want my child to go to college and get an actual education such that they can provide for themselves and their family without having to degrade themselves just to scrape by. I'm getting a college education so that my child doesn't have to "shake her titties" for some horny old bastard with a crisp $10... I'll have the money to send my child to college. Should they choose to do so, my child could also get student loans to pay for their education - an option open to all those who choose higher education. Stripping won't be an option.

The "education" that you claim stripping provides you is completely ludicrous. Is it not also true that many other non-nude jobs would provide you the same "education" without you having to take your clothes off? Besides, is "being able to read people" a necessary life skill? Sure it's helpful in some social situations... perhaps... but to be successful, one could do without. And the notion of stripping teaching you "a lot" can you elaborate? As in, give evidence as to the knowledge that stripping has provided you?

Also, e.g.: Do you not get the same 'incredible experience and great work out' being a personal trainer and changing an out-of-shape person's life around for a better/healthier one? Your justification for doing this is silly and empty. Just be honest with yourself at least: You enjoy the job. There's a common thread of ignorance, resignation, and immaturity among those in your line of work which is why I find the job reprehensible.

[Benny15]

I think strip clubs are fun, but only a once in a blue moon activity. I enjoy the female body and I've just gone to look. I just don't like getting dances, they do nothing for me. I keep thinking to myself that she must be hating this and can’t wait for the song to be over.

What does you're SO think about you're profession? I know I wouldn’t want my SO to be in that line of work, I’d go nuts...

[Benny15]

Sweetone- I don't know a thing about wickedlydivine07 but maybe that is how she is putting herself threw school.

As I’m sure you know college is extremely expensive and some people may not qualify for loans. Making minimum wage is not going to get anyone threw school (I know from experience). Dancing is a quick and easy way to make a living.

When I was in Gainesville I know quite a view girls that put themselves threw UF with their dancing job. They paid their education off and now have a degree debt free.

On the other hand there is the subject of it being degrading towards women. I guess it all depends on the person and their views.

[sweet-one]

Sweetone- I don't know a thing about wickedlydivine07 but maybe that is how she is putting herself threw school.

As I’m sure you know college is extremely expensive and some people may not qualify for loans. Making minimum wage is not going to get anyone threw school (I know from experience). Dancing is a quick and easy way to make a living.

When I was in Gainesville I know quite a view girls that put themselves threw UF with their dancing job. They paid their education off and now have a degree debt free.

On the other hand there is the subject of it being degrading towards women. I guess it all depends on the person and their views.

She asked for opinions, so I gave mine. My view is that it's degrading, and yes, there's obviously another side that argues the opposite. Such is the nature of arguments... 2 sides... yeah.

I'll be $40K in debt when I'm finished with my graduate degree. The idea is not to work to pay off school by the time that you graduate, but rather to be able to pay the loans off with the income you receive from the job you get once you've finished college. And anyone can qualify for student loans. Those with and without incomes (spousal support, parents, their own jobs or lack thereof) can find money to pay for school... stripping doesn't have to be an option. I'm not saying people don't take the road of "dancing to pay for school" - I'm fully aware that this happens all the time. I'm saying there are other ways. Minimum wage jobs aren't the only ones to be had around college campuses. And I agree that you can make plenty of money dancing, however, I had plenty of roommates who worked as waitresses and made roughly $600 a week. Now, $2400 a month is certainly enough to pay for an apartment, food, and bills, and still find some money to squirrel away for tuition for the next semester. It can be done without taking your clothes off.

[Benny15]

She asked for opinions, so I gave mine. My view is that it's degrading, and yes, there's obviously another side that argues the opposite. Such is the nature of arguments... 2 sides... yeah.

I'll be $40K in debt when I'm finished with my graduate degree. The idea is not to work to pay off school by the time that you graduate, but rather to be able to pay the loans off with the income you receive from the job you get once you've finished college. And anyone can qualify for student loans. Those with and without incomes (spousal support, parents, their own jobs or lack thereof) can find money to pay for school... stripping doesn't have to be an option. I'm not saying people don't take the road of "dancing to pay for school" - I'm fully aware that this happens all the time. I'm saying there are other ways. Minimum wage jobs aren't the only ones to be had around college campuses. And I agree that you can make plenty of money dancing, however, I had plenty of roommates who worked as waitresses and made roughly $600 a week. Now, $2400 a month is certainly enough to pay for an apartment, food, and bills, and still find some money to squirrel away for tuition for the next semester. It can be done without taking your clothes off.


Unfortunately loans are not always enough to pay you're tuition. If you're parents have bad credit and you do not have a spouse you're pretty much on you're own. The loans that people qualify for when they do not have enough barely cover costs.

I would like to know where you're friends worked, sign me up please! :biggrin2: Of course with hard work and extra effort education can be gained without taking of ones clothes. However, if they don't mind doing it and they want to make 600$ in 1 or 2 nights vs working a full week, more power to them.

[wickedlydivine07]

I don't see it as degrading, I used to. Now I see it as a form of expression and freedom. Not to mention do you realize how much it takes for an originally modest girl to get up there and take it all off for a bunch of people she doesn't know and some she does.

I moved out of my parents house when I was 17 and was offered no help so at 18 the job I had decided to fuck me out of what I deserved so I started waitressing at the local strip club in about a week of doing that my roommates bailed on me and left me with a thousand dollars worth of bills to pay off in 3 days. I had three choices dance, sell drugs, or lose everything. So I chose the best choice, I continued to have a roof over my head and not having to ask anyone for anything. I'll tell you right now my living expenses, without daily spending coming out to be about $2500 a month, factor in tuition to that and there wouldn't be a normal job I could have.

Admittedly no I'm not going to school but that's a multiple of personal choice as well as I just don't feel like it right now. Not to mention even with student loans I couldn't afford to live like that. I'm sorry but I'm one of those that has no assistance from anyone and had to obtain everything I have on my own, while my family turned their backs on me for being independent, and yes they turned there backs on me long before I was a dancer.

To those that find it degrading, that's the ignorant way to look at it, and it's NOT an easy job especially if you're one of the few that want to keep up the art of the job which there is one believe it or not. The mixture of mindblowing pole work as well as making every movement flow into a certain seduction with movement. There is an art behind it, granted in the new generation of dancers it's being lost but it's not entirely lost just yet.

Those of you that think it's an easy job the first thing I'd like to see is you walking around in 8 in heels for anywhere from 5-12 hours. The next thing is, I'd like to see you climb a 15 ft pole then turn your entire body upside down on it and hold on with nothing but the backside of your knee. Wake up the next day and tell me it's easy, and I just mentioned one of the simplest pole tricks in pole work. Anyone who's ever danced, even if only for a night, can vouch for how sore they are the next day and that's without pole work.

Now I use my brain, that's why the only time I do good is when we have people in with high end jobs IE doctors, lawyers, CEOs, etc. They don't want your typical dumb blond or ditsy stripper, they'll spend more money if they can just sit there and have an intelligent conversation with you, and enjoy looking at you at the same time. I'm no moron in fact my intelligence level is higher up there than most, I could have gone to college completely paid for had I finished highschool, but certain living circumstances wouldn't allow for survival that way.

What does my SO think?

He loves it because I don't just do it for the money I do it because I enjoy doing it. I come home and tell him everything that happened at work, I keep no secrets from him. I'm also what we call a respectable stripper. I don't stick my *areas* in anyone's face for a dollar. The worst thing I do is taking a dollar off the top of their head with my butt, which you can do without touching them. Nor do I let them grope all over me during lap dances.

[sweet-one]

I don't see it as degrading, I used to. Now I see it as a form of expression and freedom. Not to mention do you realize how much it takes for an originally modest girl to get up there and take it all off for a bunch of people she doesn't know and some she does.

I moved out of my parents house when I was 17 and was offered no help so at 18 the job I had decided to fuck me out of what I deserved so I started waitressing at the local strip club in about a week of doing that my roommates bailed on me and left me with a thousand dollars worth of bills to pay off in 3 days. I had three choices dance, sell drugs, or lose everything. So I chose the best choice, I continued to have a roof over my head and not having to ask anyone for anything. I'll tell you right now my living expenses, without daily spending coming out to be about $2500 a month, factor in tuition to that and there wouldn't be a normal job I could have.

Admittedly no I'm not going to school but that's a multiple of personal choice as well as I just don't feel like it right now. Not to mention even with student loans I couldn't afford to live like that. I'm sorry but I'm one of those that has no assistance from anyone and had to obtain everything I have on my own, while my family turned their backs on me for being independent, and yes they turned there backs on me long before I was a dancer.

To those that find it degrading, that's the ignorant way to look at it, and it's NOT an easy job especially if you're one of the few that want to keep up the art of the job which there is one believe it or not. The mixture of mindblowing pole work as well as making every movement flow into a certain seduction with movement. There is an art behind it, granted in the new generation of dancers it's being lost but it's not entirely lost just yet.

Those of you that think it's an easy job the first thing I'd like to see is you walking around in 8 in heels for anywhere from 5-12 hours. The next thing is, I'd like to see you climb a 15 ft pole then turn your entire body upside down on it and hold on with nothing but the backside of your knee. Wake up the next day and tell me it's easy, and I just mentioned one of the simplest pole tricks in pole work. Anyone who's ever danced, even if only for a night, can vouch for how sore they are the next day and that's without pole work.

Now I use my brain, that's why the only time I do good is when we have people in with high end jobs IE doctors, lawyers, CEOs, etc. They don't want your typical dumb blond or ditsy stripper, they'll spend more money if they can just sit there and have an intelligent conversation with you, and enjoy looking at you at the same time. I'm no moron in fact my intelligence level is higher up there than most, I could have gone to college completely paid for had I finished highschool, but certain living circumstances wouldn't allow for survival that way.

What does my SO think?

He loves it because I don't just do it for the money I do it because I enjoy doing it. I come home and tell him everything that happened at work, I keep no secrets from him. I'm also what we call a respectable stripper. I don't stick my *areas* in anyone's face for a dollar. The worst thing I do is taking a dollar off the top of their head with my butt, which you can do without touching them. Nor do I let them grope all over me during lap dances.

Claiming a sense of freedom and expression is a scapegoat. It's a coping mechanism. You started dancing thinking it was degrading and not liking what you were doing. Convincing yourself to keep doing it required you to push the feelings of dirtiness aside and train your mind to think of it differently such that it didn't bother you so much. 'Tis normal.

Having thousands of dollars of bills to pay up in 3 days doesn't seem reasonable either. Utilities give you grace periods, as do credit cards, and even landlords (yes, I realize they're all different and some are less lenient than others). It seems as though you were already in trouble beforehand if you were left with only 3 days to pay up or you'd quite literally lose everything.

Finding it degrading isn't ignorant at all. I don't buy into the picture of stripping that you've painted in your head. I understand that it takes a certain amount of training/endurance/refined ability to hang from a chandelier by your clit piercing, I do. But, not finding it degrading on the basis that it takes a little bit of muscular finesse... I'm not buying it. It's men paying money for women to shake their naughty bits in front of them. They may be there for some "idle conversation", but I guarantee you they aren't coming because of your ability to argue so eloquently. And, I'm not trying to say that it's an "easy" job. Sure, parading around in stilettos is painful on the feet, and hanging upside down by a knee isn't the most comfortable thing, but you chose a career in manual labor... what did you expect?

Now I use my brain, that's why the only time I do good is when we have people in with high end jobs IE doctors, lawyers, CEOs, etc.

[sigh] It's "do well", not "do good", and "e.g.", not IE.

I'm no moron in fact my intelligence level is higher up there than most, I could have gone to college completely paid for had I finished highschool, but certain living circumstances wouldn't allow for survival that way.

I find it hard to believe that someone of such a high intellectual caliber such as yourself chose not to go to college? Survival not possible? I'm sure there's a story behind that, though I'm reluctant to open that can of worms, as I feel like I'm debating with someone who tries to make points by throwing random feelings/musings at the conversation hoping something sticks, much like spaghetti.

[Fekete]

I find strip clubs to be a waste of time and money. There are pleeeenty of women who're willing to take off their clothes for me without needing money throw at them ... at least not as much.

[Sydney123456]

Do you ever want to get your high school dipolma?

And...the fact you feel the need to defend this does not show me that you are truly confident in what you do. You feel the need to fight someone about it.

And...I don't hear marathoners wanting to compare their work to what I do.

[Ms. Islip]

Having thousands of dollars of bills to pay up in 3 days doesn't seem reasonable either. Utilities give you grace periods, as do credit cards, and even landlords (yes, I realize they're all different and some are less lenient than others). It seems as though you were already in trouble beforehand if you were left with only 3 days to pay up or you'd quite literally lose everything.

Finding it degrading isn't ignorant at all. I don't buy into the picture of stripping that you've painted in your head. I understand that it takes a certain amount of training/endurance/refined ability to hang from a chandelier by your clit piercing, I do.

I find it hard to believe that someone of such a high intellectual caliber such as yourself chose not to go to college?

My husband is a certified genius who had full scholarships and still chose not to attend college. He has an IQ of 182. Some people do not like college. I am attending, but I hate it. I just think about my dreams of the future to keep me going.

I, too, have had a roommate ditch me with major bills and my landlord said, "too bad. pay up or get out". So there went my savings for next semester. I have awesome credit and didn't want to have any mars on it so there went my school savings. I had to temporarily quit. It majorly sucked. I have always made too much money to qualify for financial aid, but not quite enough to pay all of the bills and still pay for college. I worked sixty hours weeks every week, sometimes sick as hell, and damn do I wish there had been an easier way. I don't know where you live, but there are no "awesome" jobs like that around here. I am a tailor and we can make pretty decent money so I was very lucky. Most others I know do not have that luxury and had to work minimum wage crap jobs. And I did not want to end up majorly in debt as a way of starting off my career.

Some people don't have loving supporting families.

From your statement about paying bills alone, it sounds as though you have never been on your own financially. Also, 2,400.00 a month to pay the bills?

Let's see my bills when I was single:

Mortgage 1,200.00
Car Note 400.00
Car insurance 200.00
Gas 280.00(conservative-e.g. back and forth to work and
only necessary errands)
Electric bill 150.00
Water bill 100.00(oh yeah, it's ridiculous here)
Cell phone 65.00
Food 350.00
Misc. 50.00


=2795.00

Now that's not including maybe going to the movies or eating out once a week or medical care or diapers if you have a child or clothing for yourself or your child. Yes, some things can be cut back like the cell phone or you could have absolutely no plants around your home and no landscaping done therefore using a minimum of water. The mortgage is that high thanks to hurricane Katrina and the insurance companies. Many, many people have foreclosed around here. Gas is around 4.01 or so. It's almost worth it for people to move to the city just to save on gas! What I put up does not even reflect the debt that my ex ran up on my credit cards which was close to seven grand.

Yeah, I could have bought a P.O.S. car for about 2,000.00 grand, but I have a three year old daughter and would not want to be driving as much as I have to and then get stuck with her on the side of the road. Same reason I have the cell phone. It's worth the peace of mind.

I was once independent, married a rich boy and then divorced him, and regained my independence only to be worked to death with no end in site supporting my daughter and I.

Now that I am with Chinese, the bills are much larger, but he makes enough money that I can stay home and FINALLY attend college. I was not able to attend for a little over three years before Chinese and I started dating. I was too busy being the mother and the father.

So I have lived both lives. The life of an independent youth who had to make it on there own AND the life of a well do to housewife.

I'm also wondering how many strippers you have personally known? I have known quite a few and many of them are totally normal. The 'fucked up stripper" is a stereotype.


My point is to not judge those whose shoes you have not walked in before. Generalizations do no one any good.

[PhoenixDown]

I may have said this before but I don't have anything against strippers or the profession itself. I've even gone to them on a few occassions and had a good time though its not something I'd want to be doing. So I don't have a moral or personal gripe against what your doing.

That said for the sake of good conversation:


1. It helps you grow up in your views of men and the world


In my limited experience, I've seen three types of guys who frequent strip clubs.


The cheapskate guys who don't realize that this is a business.
The womanizers who only care about their jollies.
The broken hearted guys who want love and affection
Occassional groups of guys who are there to chill with their friends in a guy type activity
Rarely, the guy who understands the spectrum of what this is all about


What you don't see are the guys who are genuinely and happily married and I'm sure there is a whole range of other types besides them out there as well.

So when you say that stripping helps you grow up in the ways of men and the world, -- I'll agree that you get exposed to some of the uglier pieces of it but if your not exposed to the better aspects -- then isn't your view somewhat filtered?

Admittedly no I'm not going to school

I 'self graduated' high school and worked my way up in the world so I can't fault that your not in school and probably have no desire to return anytime soon...

but...

What are you going to do when you are too old to strip? Beauty fades and I hope you are already working on some plans to see you through the stage that comes after this.


----------

Side question 1:

There is obviously a slippery slope that comes with stripping and adult film making... a lot of girls start off trying to make a buck to get through school and wind up staying. Usually they end up hooked on drugs. I'm not saying this will happen to you - I think your too devoted to your husband for that - but whats your take on that situation?


Side question 2:

So I was talking with some friends about the masculine / feminine dynamic and that led somewhere to strippers -- a lot of them, even the ones with more normal lives, have dead or souless eyes. I dont know but thats how it looks to me anyway... do you know why that is?

One of my friends (whose known more strippers than a club owner) said that it had to do with them taking on too much masculine energy from their clients which kills their natural feminine energy.

I thought that was a good answer but why wouldn't a devoted wife or girlfiend who love sex not end up the same way?

Sorry if this is off the deep end, I'm tossing this out there without much background, but yeah it was interesting.

[wickedlydivine07]

Thank you Ms. Islip, I didn't want too be the one to say it but thank you.

Phoenix,
I intend on putting money back, once I have my life a bit more situated, like I've said before I'm still coming up in the world, if you will, I'm not quite where I want to be yet, but once I buy house and a car then I'll begin putting money back to either,

1. Start my own business (I know a few former dancers who did the same and are now successful business owners).
2. Flip houses, which is something I've always wanted to do and living in Louisiana with so many houses just abandoned and what not it wouldn't be hard to do at all.

Another thought I'd like to add is dancing has actually made me hate men less, due to my childhood I had a strong dislike and distrust for members of the opposite sex and I was a bit of a man-hater as well as man-eater, in a sense. Not to mention I was the anything you can do I can do better type. Since I started dancing though some of the conversations I've had with the more lonely figures if you will has made me open my eyes a bit and drop my hatred of all men and left it to the shovenistic pigs lol.

My take on drugs, I've always hated them I've never done anything worse than smoke a little weed. I have an uncle who destroyed his chance at both fame and success for drugs which is probably why I find them so disgusting not to mention I never have and never will want to be hooked on anything, besides cigarettes and sleep lol. Junkies disgust me. I also find drugs to be a bit of cowardice. I want to be able to face everything I have to face and get over it completely sober. I need to be strong in everything I do for those that rely on me to be that way, but yes a lot of dancers and adult actors/esses end up hooked on drugs.

The reason behind the deadness to their eyes, they hate what they do. The ones that are either bored with the job or never liked it to begin with are the ones you can see a certain lostness in their eyes. I've noticed it myself.

Actually I've had waaayyy mmore contact than I probably ever have had with members of the same sex since I began dancing, growing up I was the only girl in the neighborhood and I was a bit of a tom boy as well, I've never had many female friends. So being a dancer has actually upped my feminine energy a bit I've begun to care about certain things a female normally cares about that I never did before.

Off the deep end, no not at all.

[wickedlydivine07]

Oh and coping mechanism, no I don't think so hun, there's nothing here for me to cope with. The first night yea, after that, I was in love. I was also at the end of my extensions. I could have gone back to waitressing, but I chose not to I enjoyed what I was doing way too much, still do. The closed minded will be closed minded though, now won't they. Sheltered lives and believing society and mainstream are what's right will do that to you. Hence another reason why I enjoy what I do. Society hates us and mainstream, oh we'll never be mainstream, it's just another way for me to tell society and mainstreamers to go fuck themselves, lol.

Ooooo controversy, gotta love it.

Get my diploma? No. My GED yea eventually.

[sweet-one]

Thank you Ms. Islip, I didn't want too be the one to say it but thank you.



why would you not want to be the one to say that? ...

And I assumed bills NOT based on a family of 3 (single mom, couple of kids). A mortgage doesn't have to be $1200 for a single female, nor does someone who's 'struggling' to make it need a $400 car payment. Obviously cost of living will be different in different areas. I pay 1/5 as much as you do for water, even though I'm in an area with a drought and I don't limit myself with my usage. Yes, I've lived on my own for quite some time and I'm fully aware that a person can live for under $2000 a month without being in a questionable area and still having spending money. Call me crazy, I did it for 4 years as I worked through school.

Now, I should be allowed to have my opinion that I find the job degrading to women. I should also be allowed to say that there are other ways of getting through life without being branded as "close-minded" or "ignorant/sheltered" as I am not any of those. There's nothing wrong with not feeling that being a stripper would be liberating. One stripper's anecdotal evidence that she feels good up in front of people doesn't mean all should try it and all will feel that way because she did. The problems I had originally were with the reasons behind why stripping was okay, and/or reasons to suggest that my child should partake in the job as a way to pay for school. It was because of these that I insinuated that other options were available that offered the same 'life lessons', such as waitressing which prevented a person from having to take their clothes off, which yes, I find degrading.

1) I was taught a lot
2) You learn about people
3) It's a work-out

If the idea was to argue effectively, one would need better points as these are ridiculous. "I like it" and "It feels good" don't really hold water. Also, if it weren't possible for people to support themselves without becoming a part of the industry, everyone would be strippers, and that's not the case. I claimed to have higher aspirations for my child... nothing wrong with that. My problem is that I'm trying to legitimately argue with someone who just wants to tell me to "go fuck myself" as they've labeled me part of "mainstream" society, which makes further arguing futile.

About judging, we all judge. You judge as you read posts, regardless of the author. Please don't accuse me of things of which we are all guilty.

[vmarcus]

Well,
I kind of find it a little interesting, many seem to judge a person by what they do for a living instead of attempting to understand their circumstances.
It is like, once a person is known as a stripper, only bad things come from them.
I agree, many strippers may have made poor choices in their lives, but not all dancers
are bad people. Just because someone choices to take their clothes off in front of group a people to earn a buck doesn’t necessary always mean a bad thing. I just think there are few exceptions to the rule. One may argue stripping may be so degrading to women but so are many other professions open to women. Just as becoming some poster girl in some male publication should NOT be long term career; neither should it be for exotic dancing.
I personally, have known a girl who had her high school diploma, danced for a number of years to put her self through school, saved up and bought a condo. Well, now she’s out of the business and doing something else with her life. Then, again [maybe] she was the exception.

Yeah, I could also see why some may feel stripping as a one step above prostitution.
Okay, I don’t deny some may even exchange sexual favors for monetary gain, but I would say the vast majority of them who call their selves “exotic dancers” don’t.


Another point, I kind of find it little curious that many guys may find it as waste of time being in strip club environment. Yet, the majority of heterosexual guys I’ve come across at work or what have you, almost practically hurt themselves taking a second look the pretty woman who walks by. Yeah, I guess the argument is, at least “I not wasting my money just staring…” Though, I am just still curious of the percentage of who hire exotic dancers to appear in their bachelor parties. Speaking of which, I’ve witness a number of bachelor parties held at strip clubs, and it still amazes me I have never seen the guest of honor chicken out when his buddies invite him on stage and the girls practically humiliates in front of everybody. :embaresse

[Bath of Glitter]

I wish you would find a diff phrase than "the irony behind what you say."

No reason...just getting a little annoying.

Give her a break. It's a rare instance when a stripper knows what 'irony' means. Big words aren't their thing.

[wickedlydivine07]

Vmarcus has a good point as well but I have dealt with two guys that bailed, and doing that for them isn't cheap, on their friends. As well as the point of being judged for what you do.I can't date guys my own age mainly because to many of them are caught up on the concept of dating a stripper as being "super cool" granted I don't really want to date guys my own age but you see my point. I get judged for my occupation daily. I haven't met an SOs parents since I started because of it. I got lucky this time my current SOs mother and aunt used to work in a strip club. Though some see it as an interesting occupation, others, much like yourself, want to look down on me for it. An immediate judgement due to occupation is just as unfair as an immediate judgement due to clothing, or living arrangements, but people still do it. Would you like to be judged so harshly for the things you do? Or would you like someone to listen to your reasons behind them or your views, who knows you might feel completely different about it and might be able to open someone else's eyes to your version of reality. That's what I'm trying to do, possibly open someone else's eyes because I know even my own needed to be opened.

Bath of Glitter, the sad part about what your saying is it's true. I've noticed a lot of the women in this industry at least appear rather uneducated, granted some just put it up as an act but some are just genuinely dumb, book smart maybe, common sense seems to be lacking in almost all of them.

You'll have to excuse how heated I got in my last post but the remark about the chandelier and the clit piercing was a rather unsightly blow to the nether regions. You might not undserstand why, but I wouldn't expect you to either.

[moonangel]

Yawn ... this debate is so boring!! Wicked, why can't you just agree to disagree? You have a job, and you enjoy it. That's great. So why are you so set on proving to everyone that it's a wholesome and rewarding career? What are you out to prove? I personally, do not care what you do for a living.
There's always going to be people that disagree with stripping, and you're not going to convince them otherwise by spouting all this drivel about how educational it is and blah blah blah. You're just out for a fight and on this crusade to glorify stripping as this great profession.
The fact that are SO defensive about your line of work tells me that maybe you're not 100% okay with it like you make out. If you were, you wouldn't feel the need to start pointless debates like this.

[Poor Yorick]

If you guys (and gals (hehehe)) come to my city, we should all go to Brandi's; damn fine gals and the best bang for your buck!

[erinwithane]

I'm kinda curious to everyone's opinion on either subject because I'm in a ranting mood and I'd like to set some people straight, because a lot of people seem to misconcieve the subjects.

So what do you think of strippers?

Strip clubs?

I'd love detailed opinions so I can debate upon it.

Most strippers have been sexually assulted or molested in some way at some point in their lives. Same thing goes for most people who work in the adult industry. I feel this is an industry that profits off of expoliting victims of sexual abuse and violence. I have a problem with that. I dont have a problem with the strippers, or porn, but with the adult industry in general.

[AustiN]

Most strippers have been sexually assulted or molested in some way at some point in their lives. Same thing goes for most people who work in the adult industry. I feel this is an industry that profits off of expoliting victims of sexual abuse and violence. I have a problem with that. I dont have a problem with the strippers, or porn, but with the adult industry in general.

lawl so wrong, but the typical response from a feminist liberal

[Kuky]

Is there empirical evidence to back up the claim about most strippers?

[Emerson13]

Wow, this argument IS kinda boring...and obviously going where wicked wanted it to. Obviously people have different views on different things, so by starting this thread you obviously knew where it was going to go.

I don't really think all strippers can be generalized, some are trying to make their way through college and others are whores, some love it, some hate it, etc. I don't think it's fair to say "most strippers" anything, nor is it fair to say "most asians, most black guys, most women". Everyone is different, and everyone has different views about everything.

I personally don't like my guy going to strip clubs, because the one time I did go in one the stripper actually grabbed his cock....does every stripper do this? Of course not, but that's enough for me to not want him to go to one because yes, that does happen. Lets be realistic, there has to be SOME type of sex in SOME champagne rooms.

[vmarcus]

Well,
I a bit disappointed with this thread cause of the lack an additional insight on the subject.

Hmmm,
I’m just wondering the real reason some women hate their guys going to strip clubs?
Is because their men maybe touched improperly or is it because they enjoy the experience?

Still, it is always debatable what is impropriate activity is such environment.
I’ve been on other forums which had debated the very subject. Like what defines “sex?”
Others have even gone on to say sexual activity included extended body contact, therefore categorizing stripping as a form of prostitution.
I oppose such views. So what dancer makes body contact or touches the customer? Just who feels uncomfortable with the situation? More than likely, it is the significant other of the customer. I think the line is crossed when the patron is caught up with seeking sexual gratification from the encounter.

[vmarcus]

Lets be realistic, there has to be SOME type of sex in SOME champagne rooms.

Hmmm,
Lets see, what is your definition of sex?
Is it simply extended body contact and hands groping?
Yeah, dry sex may be quite common in a lot of clubs, but not all.
Anything, further than that is rather rare.

However, little do the people [out of business] realize that the vast majority strip clubs monitors what occurs inside the premises. And yes, most owners don’t tolerate any activity which may cause them to be shut down such as prostitution. Though, the more sleazy clubs tend to look the other way.

[Emerson13]

Hmmm,
Lets see, what is your definition of sex?
Is it simply extended body contact and hands groping?
Yeah, dry sex may be quite common in a lot of clubs, but not all.
Anything, further than that is rather rare.

However, little do the people [out of business] realize that the vast majority strip clubs monitors what occurs inside the premises. And yes, most owners don’t tolerate any activity which may cause them to be shut down such as prostitution. Though, the more sleazy clubs tend to look the other way.

Sex in general, oral sex, regular sex...I bet it happens, maybe rarely, but it does. And I don't like my guy going to strip clubs because I don't really consider it a "social thing" when naked girls are rubbing themselves on guys, I don't care what the reason for it is, I just don't like it when it's my SO. And while I agree that some women are OK with it, and that's fine, but I am not.

Tell me about the strippers who are at stag parties and go down on each other, thats having sex. And maybe they don't have sex at clubs, but I am sure they do at stag parties, probably with several people. again, not all strippers, but some.