The lost art of chivalry

[Prophecy]

Guys like to know that the effort they put forth is worth all the pain, sweat, and beating of the futon. So what's it all worth?
It comes naturally... opening doors, standing up, etc,
Is the elegant, courteous fellow out the window, or just hanging on the window sill?
Wouldn't it make sense that girls would be attracted to the man who can cater to her needs, etc,
However, it appears that nowadays guys can get away without busting their chops.
Does it pay to even exert extreme attention and care?
The obvious answer is yes. However, although rhetorical, I'd still like to hear those of you who say "no".
I'm dying to see all the girls say that they don't receive enough attention. My next question is then, "Why don't you find a guy who will satisfy your need for this attention, care, etc". They are out there.
And the art is not lost... it's just practiced by the masters in small quantities.
-right, Truth? :wink:
Thoughts, middle fingers, and cash donations welcome.

-peace

[Deidre]

I wouldn't call any of the things you mentioned "chivalry". Polite, yes, chivalry, no. If you start calling that chivalry, then I'm polite to you simply by not smacking you over the head (rhethorically speaking).

While a lot of girls today want a fair bit more "freedom" than this politeness allows, I know plenty of girls who expect that and wont settle for less.

I personally prefer something in between. While I expect this politeness from my boyfriend (opening doors, letting me pass through first, pulling out my chair for me etc.), I don't want it all the time. I don't want it to be something I expect and not appreciate. I don't want it to continue for ever, either. I expect it to wear off (and after 10 months, it should, now, shouldn't it... I'm not expected to marry him anytime soon, as a result of this behaviour.

[super_chevy2000]

My feelings are as deidre said. I want something in between. I expect my guy to do some of these things but I don't want someone doing it all the time.

[Truth]

what proph mentioned is all about chivalry (which you and I discussed lastnight)....he means being a gentleman to lady has lost all meaning these days.. And yes Proph it would make sense that woman would be more attracted to someone that caters to thier needs. Unfortunetly it is not like that anymore...because alot of men have lost that touch with - politness - chivalry - kindness; whatever you want to call it. And it is those guys that women seem to go after. does not a woman want to be treated the way they should be treated instead of dirt....damn....i have talked to many of my female friends and I hear the same story, "he treats me like dirt", " he cheated on me", " I need to find a nice guy", "I wish my bf would treat me nicer"...."Sigh"....

and it all boils down to, why don't you just look for a nice guy....why try and change someone that you know will not....


the art is not lost... it's just practiced by the masters in small quantities.
-right, Truth?


and that is so right Proph, so right...by the way, click on the link below, its for you..


http://rf.thedesigneng.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=4162

[jungAH]

Omigawsh... I absolutely ADORE a guy who's gentlemanly like that... I don't care what you call it, but I'm a sucker for those kinna things like door opening and standing up... *sigh* It's the sweetest thing, even if they are just being polite, or whatever...

are YOU like that? cuz then yay, brownie points for you!! ^.^

[Truth]

Omigawsh... I absolutely ADORE a guy who's gentlemanly like that... I don't care what you call it, but I'm a sucker for those kinna things like door opening and standing up... *sigh* It's the sweetest thing, even if they are just being polite, or whatever...


really, i did not know... i thought a lot of woman did not like that anymore or welcome it either....



are YOU like that? cuz then yay, brownie points for you!! ^.^


Yup, both Proph and I are very much like that. Its not just learned you know, it just happens to be part of our up brining, common sense and what we believe is right to do....i don't know, what i am saying but....oh well...

[IGemini]

The chivalrous nature has all but disappeared as a result of changing attitudes in an ever-changing society. Paradoxes become more apparent about this because people say they want this, but they will act differently in reality. I have seen way too many examples of this, because the person that someone is dating will not necessarily act the same way around other people. The nice nature is lost all together, and that's why nice girls are attracted to jerks. Chivalry is abandonned because some see no point of doing it.

[stace]

oww i like nice guys and ones that treat me nice, i dated a bad guy once just for a change of pace and well that was over in two days! I like nice guys!!

[Am I tight or not?]

The chivalrous nature has all but disappeared as a result of changing attitudes in an ever-changing society. Paradoxes become more apparent about this because people say they want this, but they will act differently in reality. I have seen way too many examples of this, because the person that someone is dating will not necessarily act the same way around other people. The nice nature is lost all together, and that's why nice girls are attracted to jerks. Chivalry is abandonned because some see no point of doing it.

exactely. I'm a nice, polite, open the door for you and let you pass first kind of guy. I see no advantage in doing this and I don't think most girls appreciate it.

then again the majority of people are morons. I guess I have to find a girl who appreciates the nice, polite kind as opposed to the jerk.

[Jebus]

I'll glady open the doors, push out her chair, and allow her to go first on the first date, and maybe a few after. But gesh, she's not going to get pissed off if, after going out with her for a few months, I don't push out the chair for her. Hell, first off, I'm not paying for every meal, and I'm not paying for every place we go. I don't have buckets full of cash to spend, that is unless Burger King is the hot spot for Friday Night Dates. Otherwise, I'm cutting coupons, I don't care if it looks stupid, I'm trying to save money here.

Pshh, nice guys may not always finish last, but they always get stuck with the bill.

[jungAH]

Omigawsh... I absolutely ADORE a guy who's gentlemanly like that... I don't care what you call it, but I'm a sucker for those kinna things like door opening and standing up... *sigh* It's the sweetest thing, even if they are just being polite, or whatever...


really, i did not know... i thought a lot of woman did not like that anymore or welcome it either....



are YOU like that? cuz then yay, brownie points for you!! ^.^


Yup, both Proph and I are very much like that. Its not just learned you know, it just happens to be part of our up brining, common sense and what we believe is right to do....i don't know, what i am saying but....oh well...

HUZZA!! :mrgreen: Don't worry, I know exactly what you're saying... and it's niiiice...!

[LuckyRiverJordan]

excatly. I like nice guys. I mean, the first couple of dates should be gentlmenly-like-ish :lol: opening up doors, standing up when you stand up..that sort of thing. I don't expect it after that..sometimes i would like to be the guy!!! :lol: I'm also a tomboy, so usually i open up my own door....:o so yeah...girls usually like that sort of thing.

[Truth]

^

cool glad to hear some of you lovely ladies still like the kind gentlemen in this day and time period...

although nice guys finish last, good things come to those who wait...believe me.. I have been more than patient....*still waiting*

[Truth]

this was a cool thread peter...hey give me a call later tonight...

[Prophecy]

It's odd that it seems more common for women to be dissapointed with the person they are dating because they perform the very minimum amount of work to sustain the relationship. When I am in a relationship and I just do what I do, the girls always seem to be blown away. Then they wonder why more guys aren't like you. But that doesn't mean that other things can't come into play that will spoil the relationship. But the ultimate stinger is to be the best boyfriend you can be, and then when she dumps you, her new bf will seem totally worthless and inadequate. MUAHAHAHA Speaking from experience here folks.

Naw I think that going the extra mile and busting your hump is the way to go. It might not always be rewarding, but when it is... it IS.
Man, I just woke up and I don't know if that's coherent at all. :lol:

[Truth]

^

I so know what you speak of prophecy and I totally agree that going the extra mile, making the woman feel special is what it is all about for me. Who cares how I feel just as long as I am happy with that person and that they are happy with me doing as I do for them....maybe i have done to much and look where it has gotten me, a list of ex's and a broken heart that has been struggling to get mended.......

[jungAH]

^

*reenters thread with several needles and spools of thread*

Mending? Somebody need a mending I heard? Hmm... deal is, I only mend gentlemen, so you gotta be nice and witty and fun to be around [not to mention.. fiiine.... :)].. oh hey, it's you! Why, mending done anytime... anywhere... just name the hour and place...

[Truth]

^

your so cute....anytime, anywhere huh....I might have to take you up on that a little later...hehe...

[one4]

ok sincec this topic has been off track and all im just gonna put my 2 cents in.

now being polite and all that should be something you just do, but i figure its somehtign everyone should do. Like ill try and open a door for a girl but or a guest leaving my house kinda thing, but if it just easier for them to do it then they might as well.

for example, i was walking into this mcdonals with a girl and her friend. They are infront of me by a foot or too. So they just stop then i go 'uhhh' and then open the door. And this girls friend is like "excuse me, your supposed to open the door and be a gentleman" or somehting like that. That pisses me off so much, like you would not beleive. I lvoe doing ncie things like that for other people, thats just the way i am. but when someone deemands it off me i get so mad.

[Clive Sparrow]

I'm too unsure on what chivalry really means to make a definate comment about it being dead or not, but the things that you listed, I am gonna run off of that.

one thing that I really do wonder, is why girls don't go for guys like that more often? I mean, I know plenty of guys that do things like that, and I try to do it as often as I can, but the thing I can't get over is them not saying anything. I mean, I really would like to know if the girl likes what I'm doing, because my current girlfriend never really tells me anything like that, I mean, she doesn't tell me she appretiates it, I'm just meant to assume one way or the other, and that's hard for me, cause I'm slow.

[super_chevy2000]

I think that sometimes a girl can expect too much from a guy just because he's a guy so a guy should do all these sweet little things because he wants to do it and not because someone expects him to. A guy wanting to do these things is one of the things that makes them so special.

[Adonis]

girls just so do not appreciate people that do that kind of stuff anymore.. it's gotten to the point where if you stand up from the table when a girl leaves, they'll just look at you weird and ask, "uhh, what are you doing?"

i've also had girls that just refused to allow me pull out seats or hold doors for them.. goddamn it! girls are so hard to deal with!

[Coyote Loco]

just little things here and there are wonderful.. the holding the door open bit is sweet... it's not something that needs to be done everytime because then it gets to be expected... but yeah...

:mrgreen:

[Clive Sparrow]

I think too many people, or hell maybe it was just one reply I read a couple times, are assuming that girls don't like that stuff anymore. you really can't say that cause you don't know them all! maybe your experience with it hasn't been what you'd like it to be, but, I doubt there isn't one girl out there that doesn't appretiate that (did I word that right? hell, you know what I meant!) well, maybe we can safely say, we'd like to see a little better experience to lead us to believe otherwise, 'eh?

[Mooch]

Well, I will first say that I think people should be polite, and that means whoever gets to the door first holds it open, etc. Pulling out a chair for someone seems dumb to me though, I would never do that...they're not that heavy people! I guess what I'm saying is I am generally nice and polite to people in general, but that's because I'm nice, and girls don't have a right to expect it.

Also, to me at least, the concept of "chivalry" goes hand in hand with sexism...and you can have it both ways. If you want guys to treat you like you're week and feeble and can't do things for yourselves (like open doors) (and this is where the concept of chivalry came from) then you can complain about not being considered by guys as equals in other respects. I'm not a sexist, and in all matters of life except who I date, I treat guys and girls equally. That means I expect them to be able to take care of themselves. And that means, pull out your own damn chairs.

Not trying to offend anyone here, but chivalry is sexism..and we won't get rid of sexism until we get rid of chivalry too.

[Scarlet Phlox]

girls just so do not appreciate people that do that kind of stuff anymore.. it's gotten to the point where if you stand up from the table when a girl leaves, they'll just look at you weird and ask, "uhh, what are you doing?"

I was like that sometimes.....it just kinda made me feel helpless. I liked it most of the time, but I didn't see the point in waiting for my boyfriend to open doors for me when I got there first. The thing is, he really wanted to, and now that we've broken up, I miss his little acts of chivalry.

[Clive Sparrow]

Mooch had a good point up there. I mean, even though the thread is kinda about girls not appretiating it anymore or somethin like that, I think that people should be polite to people in general, it shouldn't just be limited to guys and girls. hell, with the whole door thing it's generally a trade off with me and my girlfriend, she always gets there first so she opens the first one and I open the second one, heh, it's not like they get mad if you miss a couple or something. and then Scarlet Phlox had another good point, I mean, sometimes you don't notice these things until after they are gone!

[Lone Wolf]

somehow girl like this only on a theroetical level
they dream about the gentleman and stuff - or at least they complain about their b/f not being a gentleman and stuff

and then somehow, as soon as a girl gets that attention, it's not ok either...

world's weird...


Lone Wolf

[jungAH]

^

:lol: Yes, I laugh... cuz it's so true...ehhh.. :roll:

[Truth]

somehow girl like this only on a theroetical level
they dream about the gentleman and stuff - or at least they complain about their b/f not being a gentleman and stuff

and then somehow, as soon as a girl gets that attention, it's not ok either...

world's weird...


Lone Wolf

sooo true...so true...

[eatshit]

Well, yeah its nice for a guy to open doors and stuff for girls... and it usually makes us girls feel like we're kinda being looked after... guys should be appreciated for doing things like that... maybe girls should start doing stuff like that too, i dont think guys should have to pay for all a girlfriends' food and stuff, if gf and bf want to pay for each toher, they should take turns!

[Scarlet Phlox]

i dont think guys should have to pay for all a girlfriends' food and stuff, if gf and bf want to pay for each toher, they should take turns!

But what if he won't let you?? Like he seriously WILL NOT LET YOU?

[ShRt SwEEt*n*SexY]

i like a polite nice guy but the whole chivalry thing becomes asinine. it inevitably turns into the "whose penis is bigger contest" and really that becomes quite redundant.

[Deidre]

But what if he won't let you?? Like he seriously WILL NOT LET YOU?
Then you surprise him, by showing up with something that's already paid for. :)

somehow girl like this only on a theroetical level
they dream about the gentleman and stuff - or at least they complain about their b/f not being a gentleman and stuff

and then somehow, as soon as a girl gets that attention, it's not ok either..
I never dreamed about someone who'd open doors for me, want to pay for me, pulls out my chair etc. I got one anyway and I don't complain about it (although I will complain, and loudly, about him wanting to pay me back for things I do for him... :P Why's he supposed to be the only one who's allowed to pay for things? ...he tends to end up paying me back anyway by treating me to the movies or whatever, anyway). :)

[hunny]

Yeah.... I once dated this super-polite guy.. he opened doors for me, including my car door when he took me out... sometimes there'd be a flower on the seat when he opened it.. how sweet! He always came to the door when he picked me up, and always walked me to my front door when he brought me home. Lit my cigarette for me (yeah, I smoked, so what?) and little things like that.
What a gentleman!
Oh, but he also turned out to be the biggest jerk I'd ever had the misfortune of getting mixed up with. So you can't always judge a decent guy by his manners. Sometimes it's just a front. Or at least it was in this case.
Damn... maybe I'm bitter but I think you GUYS are just as hard to deal with as girls.

[eatshit]

But what if he won't let you?? Like he seriously WILL NOT LET YOU?
Then you surprise him, by showing up with something that's already paid for. :)
hahah EXACTLY!! :lol:

i also dont think guys having manners is a requirement in a "dream guy" for ANY girl, its just a plus... and i guess just because a guy has good manners doesn't mean too much about his personality either...

[Sydney123456]

I have a guy that waits on me hand and foot...yet when I flex my muscles and try to excercise my freedom, he lets me do so.

But...I like that treatment, always have. I try to pay for things, but he's stubborn and will never let me. When I think I get away with paying for something, he either sends me a letter with money in it, or he works at a bank so he transfers as little as $7 from his account to mine! BAH! It's a no win situation...but, I think it's cute. :P

He doesn't always pull out my chair for me which is great (he does it when we're someplace nice, or at a formal event...becuase the atmosphere is appropriate).

I like being babied...a great deal of the guys that I've liked do baby their girlfriends. The one that didn't was a completely lustful attraction... :-?