Tightass airport security once more

[Kuky]

I'm surprised no one mentioned this by now. Maybe they were busy waiting in line at the airport for security to make people dispose of their shampoo and toothpaste.

You know how the story goes... once more, they've uncovered a plot to assemble a bomb on a plane from household ingredients, and now, the world is paying for it by annoyongly tight (yet extremely ineffective) airport security. Line-ups are backed up all the way into parking lots, and everything is at a stand-still. The US media, of course, jumped on the opportunity to strike terror into the hearts of the many imbeciles out there to lock in their votes for 2008.

Hopefully, the tightned security is only temporary.

The current in-thing is to have people dispose of shampoo, toothpaste, and anything liquidish. Maybe after the "terr'ists" nail-clip the pilot to death, they'll wash his hair, brush his teeth, and drown the copilot in a bottle of water.

Let's face it, folks, if someone has the balls to set off a bomb in an airport, he probably has no problems getting diabetes medicine and a prescription in his name. Of course, he can swap out the liquid medicine for the main liquid ingredient of his bomb. And as an added bonus, he gets to bring NEEDLES on board!!! The only decision is whether he should take care of that before or after he photoshops his fake boarding pass. But never mind that, we can't let him have toothpaste, or any other liquids. I'm sure they'll be comfy on their flight with two shotglasses of ice water (i.e. ice with a bit if water).

Hey, hey, there's an idea. Bring ICE to the checkpoint, and when they tell you you can't bring liquids, tell them ice is a solid.

There are SO many ways to sneak stuff onto an airplane, cause let's face it, it's trivial to fashion weapons from anything. Using a sheet of plastic, you can make something sharp enough to hold a pilot hostage and hijack a plane. Soon, mothers will have to dispose of their babies, because they're 70% liquid.

[Gezus]

Dude, there was a plan to bomb multiple planes with liquids. The shitty thing is airports just look for liquid hectically for a wihle, then they forget about it and that's that.

I think a good system would be taking your toothpaste and all that from you, and then giving it to you later on instead of confiscating it like assholes. Remember that time I bought you kinky pink fur handcuffs for xmas, and the assholes at the airport said I can't bring anything that can hold people against their will? It's a little piece of plastic, and I was a kid at the time! They didn't even have the courtesy to ship it or anything, fucking assholes.

[oceanlake]

So are you suggesting that security is a waste of time and we should just let anyone with a ticket walk on a plane?

Yeah the system has some kinks and holes in it now, but both the airlines and travelers are adapting to the new rules. Anyway, people take all kinds of crap in their carry-on that they don't need for a flight of a few hours. Realistically you should be able to fit everything you need to be comfortable and not die of boredom into one bag and save everyone else a lot of hassle.

As far as sneaking stuff onto the plane in the form of liquid or insulin shots or whatever. Is thee something that prevents the plane from stocking a few extra sodas or some insulin and needles so that nobody will have to bring these on themselves?

[Kuky]

- There are so many types of prescriptions that you can't expect (or rely on, or trust) airlines to stock up on.

- Carry-ons aren't just about "what you need to not die of boredom." For one thing, if I'm travelling somewhere for a weekend, I'd be a fool to check in one change of clothes and my toothbrush, etc. Secondly, there are items that are too important to check in. For instance, I would _NEVER_ check in my laptop... but now (at least the british airlines, I think it hasn't gotten that bad elsewhere just yet), you can't bring your laptops on board.

It's not that I want anyone to be able to walk onto a plane. However, they are taking it to an extreme. You shouldn't let guns and such things go on board, and it's nice to search bags every now and then, if it's looking unreliable. But here's the thing, there is no compromise. There is nothing you can do that will be completely safe, and a reasonably good customer experience. Frankly, I'd rather take the risk. The fact is this: taking away nail clippers and box cutters won't prevent squat. If you have a pair of hands, you can strangle the pilot and crash the plane.

People will always find a way to get stuff on board, because we change things in a "uh oh, block that particular hole" kind of way. Remember when someone had a gun disguised as a cell phone? This wasn't an airport thing, but after that, cops were allowed to draw guns on cell phone users. But they wouldn't draw guns on.... blackberry users, PSP users, anyone with a pager..... To be consistent, they would have had to draw guns at any electronic device. Oh, but then they would just disguise guns as non-electronic stuff. In the end, cops would draw guns on anybody... but that's not a sustainable model, is it? I think airport security is no different.

Now they ask me to take off my shoes, and they move my balls left and right as they check for various WMD's on my legs. Then, they see something on the bag x-ray. It's some random electronic circuitry, with a big cylindrical thing next to it. Bomb-like, yes? It was actually a playstation, and the cylinder was a tube I was carrying my diploma in. They asked what that stuff was, asked to open the bag... and then let me go. They didn't check, they just saw the corner of the PSX. That could VERY WELL have been a giant bomb, but good thing they checked my shoes.

I guess what I'm saying is, before making us jump through ridiculous hoops, they should get the BASIC stuff right. IMO, that would be MUCH more secure than the shit they're pulling now. Everyone KNOWS what the rules are (and any terrorist with half a brain would know where not to hide the doomsday device), so they'll just think of something (and trust me, there are plenty of workarounds).

[HarmonyOfApathy]

The real issue will never be resolved due to the sheer volume of airline travelers to the number of airline employees. If someone REALLY wants to take down a plane, they'll do it. Boxcutter, toothpaste, nutsack-bombs or not. 5 years of training in Wing Chun or Mantis could teach you how to snap the neck of people 200 pounds larger than yourself with your bare hands. It's not the tools they use that really takes down the plane, it's the ingenuity and desire to get it done.

The most we can do is standardize, be ruthless, indiscriminate, and microscopic. Unfortunatly, we brought all this upon ourselves, one way or the other.

[Jenibear]

technically... we are all 70 or more percent water.. so no one should be allowed on a plane :)

[ittakessome]

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a314/Grimfrost/liquids-on-a-plane.jpg

[sweet-one]

My friend got stuck in security for a long time because she takes her shampoo and things in unmarked bottles, so she doesn't have to take the larger bottles to save space. Apparantly they questioned her pretty heavily, even made her cry. She's this really sweet girl who wants to be a country music singer/USO tour singer - not the bomb making type at all. She supports the military completely, even does the soldier care package thing... stupid airports.

[Kuky]

One comedian once said, "The 'shoe bomber' was all about a practical joke: 'I bet I can make those stupid americans take off their shoes at an airport.' I'm looking forward to the underwear bomber!"

[rcwant2be]

my grandma is all packed to leave on vacation in a few days. she's one of those pack in advance types. had to call her today & let her know to repack her carryon. oops.

[nicruns]

on the radio this morning there was a tampa man who was not alowed top bring his insulin on board yesterday. that shocked the hell out of me.

but if people were not taking this seriously and screening liquids we would all be bitching about them not doing anything. there's no great solution. the same technology that makes wonderful things like world wide travel possible also alllows great harm to be done

[kuju]

I heard that all prescription meds, including insulin needles, are allowed on if the prescription matches your passport name. And no, you could NOT "just have a stock of insulin and needles" on board. There are many types of insulin, and people need varying amounts, sometimes mixtures, and they might also need a blood sugar tester to determine how much insulin they need... and the tester involves a small needle of sorts as well.


But I really do agree with you Kuky... the people who CAUGHT this were doing the right thing. They found out how the bombs stuff was being carried on board. the problem is how it's handled afterwards. Heh... I'm never going to be able to wear contact lenses on a plane again, because if I fall asleep I need to take them out, or my eyes might dry out and I'd need solution of some sort.

How about this? we can bring EMPTY water bottles, and have the flight attendants fill them. Because the little shit glasses they give me aren't going to cut it, and I don't want my tray table down the whole time to accomodate a cup!

Or... we can BUY water once we're through the security check?

[water nymph]

I'm just glad they caught the would be bombers, we always seem to lose that in the hype following the capture. I don't want to even think about what would have happened if they had made it through security and onto the planes- security would have been even worse.

[Nonny]

Or... we can BUY water once we're through the security check?

Most airports have small restaurants, kiosks, and shops past the security checkpoint. These days, even on cross-country flights (dunno about int'l), you have to pay a fairly ridiculous amount of money for food on-board, so most people buy food before boarding.

This is all pre-current hysteria, though.

[BabyDiva]

They could make a load of money at US airports by having those shops after the checkpoints. It would be like Disney (can't bring it into the park, so sell it at a higher price when they can't leave!). Freaking rat trap. I only go there once a year and have to budget so I don't break my bank account on beverages!

I was very impressed that they caught and arrested so many of them so quickly. They are to be commended for that. As for the carry-on thing...I'm going on a plane for the first time EVER at the end of the month. My boyfriend wanted to carry everything on, but I don't know if I'll be able to find my shower stuff (which is ALL liquid) in his tiny hometown. So, we're going to HAVE to check my suitcase. I'm sure that will irritate him, but he's going to have to get over it. I'm just PRAYING they don't lose my bag. I'll probably have a change of clothes and some basics stashed in a regular carry-on, just in case.

While I'm glad we've stepped up security to avoid further incidents, there should be a more effecient way of going about it. Of course, if everyone could just have an extra small bag with their name on it and the airline had a way of making sure it wasn't an explosive (of course) they could stash them in a place in the bay and distribute them once at the flight's location. I'm sure there's no real efficient way to go about that.

For the time-being, I guess this is just how it will be until someone comes up with a better method.

Aside from that, the terrorists really should get a grip on the fact that airport and mass transit security catches on to their games. Wasn't it either Edison or Einstein who said that a person is a fool if they expect the same procedure to have a different outcome? They don't seem to be very intelligent to keep targetting the same things over and over.

[Tootsie Pop]

Last I heard... Insulin is aloud as long as it is in a sealed vile. No needles... no IVs...... nothing in any sort of container that has been opened.

A long as a prescription is sealed it is ok (though Im sure they will pull you out of the line to have a talk with you about it).

It may be a case-by-case basis. I dont know. Its said thinking about the state of the world.

[oceanlake]

There is always a solution... if stocking insulin on board isn't feasible, the airline can have such inject-able prescription meds taken from the passenger and stored somewhere on the plane where they can accessed later in the event of a medical emergency.

Anyway, yeah the number of personal freedoms one much exchange for the privilege of flying keeps getting greater and greater. Really if the TSA employees want to search all luggage for SECURITY purposes that is fine. But by that same token one should be able to pack whatever they want as long as its not a SECURITY threat. For example, if a security screener were to catch you with a bag of weed in your luggage, nothing should be done since its not a security issue. It's not like you can blow up a plain with a little mary jane.

[SoSweetAngel]

I flew from India to Heathrow the day after the bombs were found -- possibly the most stressful check in procedure ever.

First, they told me I wasn't allowed to carry anything on, apart from passport, travel docs, keys, etc. I was fine with this - I'd expected it. At check in, I asked for a clear plastic bag to put my essentials in - she looked baffled and said "you don't have to check in your handbag". I checked that she was sure, since my final destination was Heathrow, she said "yeh" then expressed similar surprise that I wanted to check in my laptop. Believe me, I did NOT want to check in my laptop -- 10 hours on a plane with no entertainment, no way!

So I carried on my laptop bag (full of other electronic goodies) and handbag. BIG MISTAKE. What she meant was "you can carry things on, if you want to spend literally 2 hours going through additional security checks". I had my laptop bag emptied and checked 3 times by three separate people, put through a dozen scanners... my boots set off the metal detector (buckles) so I had to go into the curtained box and be felt up, and have my boots bomb-scanned. Walked round the corner through another metal detector and set that off too (don't wear boots with buckles, kids).
Through the boarding gate.... phew.... "excuse me madam, could you join this line please" -- points to line about 6 miles long for everyone with carry on luggage. OMIGOD!!

All in all, it was the most stressful airport experience I've had -- BUT I was pretty sure that no bombs got onto that plane. Which, let's face it, is a nice thing to know (or believe) the day after an aborted terrorist attack.

Heathrow is a mess at the mo - a LOT of flights have been cancelled (50 BA flights yesterday) - people are missing their plane because they're still stuck at check in. So, they've now openly said "this is temporary, we won't carry on checking everything, because it's not practical". uhhh, great.

I agree that we shouldn't continue "spot-tightening" security this way. Not sure what to suggest though. Demand that people arrive 4 hours before check in?

[water nymph]

There is always a solution... if stocking insulin on board isn't feasible, the airline can have such inject-able prescription meds taken from the passenger and stored somewhere on the plane where they can accessed later in the event of a medical emergency.

Anyway, yeah the number of personal freedoms one much exchange for the privilege of flying keeps getting greater and greater. Really if the TSA employees want to search all luggage for SECURITY purposes that is fine. But by that same token one should be able to pack whatever they want as long as its not a SECURITY threat. For example, if a security screener were to catch you with a bag of weed in your luggage, nothing should be done since its not a security issue. It's not like you can blow up a plain with a little mary jane.

I have to disagree. Even storing insulin/meds is going to be a pain in the ass; the amount of organization would be absoultely horrible not to mention the fact that people are going to talk about invading rights and being treated like children.

As to the pot on planes. You forget one thing- it is illegal. Whether or not it should be is a non-issue right now. There are already exhisting laws about carrying pot on planes, laws that will continue to be obeyed by airport security. They're not going to let illegal pot through just because it isn't a security risk.

[Kuky]

They would need to hire OR specialists to optimize the system, but what would be required is some kind of pipelined security check (assembly line style, for the non-tech-savvy). Henry Ford figured this out decades ago. I know it's kinda similar now, but there are lots of things they could optimize that will make things faster again.

[kuju]

Heh... my beef is with contact lens solution and the like. How about this? Right in front of the security guy, I put some drops in my eyes. No sane person would put explosive liquid drops in their eyes, right? or how about... as you take your beverage through security, you must take a big swallow of it. who swallows explosives? come on people, let's get creative!

[dtbmnec]

But drinking down liquid explosives is fun....

There's a reason why I don't actually want to leave the country anymore. I have an arab last name and I'm sure if I tried crossing the border with anything other than my own two feet I'd be questioned till I cried. Why? Because of the war on terror...granted it had its place yes, but its definately turned into much more than just that...I may not look like an arab (I'm pasty white, blue eyes, dark blondish hair) but I have an arab last name and I'd be singled out for sure (I mean only terrorists come from arab countries, not normal people right? [/sarcasm])

This is all part of the reason why I got my tat: its in arabic and if you want to know what it means I'll tell you. Don't believe me? Look it up! Still don't believe me? Go fuck yourself! My parents don't understand that concept. They don't understand that I don't care if I am labelled wrongly or something because its part of who I am (nothing can change the fact that my dad is arab).

Megan

P.S. As to the security thing....well....some precautions are necessary but at the same time what are you gonna tell all those mother's of babies who are on formula from a bottle? I think in that case they'd better stock up on some damn good baby food. Are they gonna take away my birth control because they could be bombs? That's pushing it a little. And they want you to carry as little as possible on the plane but at the same time want you keep current perscriptions for every drug you take? Crazy.

[Kuky]

Megan, baby formula is allowed (if you produce the baby that goes with it).

Also, drinking out of bottles wouldn't suffice by itself, since there was talk of false bottoms in the plot (note: if there hadn't been talk of false bottoms, american security wouldn't check for it, since they can't think of anything themselves unless it already happened :D).

I want someone to sneak some milkshake on-board in a can of baby formula. If they ask for proof (i.e. the baby), then just tell them you checked it in with the luggage, since it's 70% liquid.

[Gezus]

Wouldn't suicidal people consume explosives nonetheless since they're gonna die anyway? As long as the explosives don't kill you immediately or burn.

[Kuky]

Wouldn't suicidal people consume explosives nonetheless since they're gonna die anyway? As long as the explosives don't kill you immediately or burn.

That's exactly the thing. If you're hardcore enough to blow yourself up, it's probably not too much trouble to have a kidney replaced with a high power explosive. Then, all you need is some kind of thread to stick out of the stitch, and when you pull it hard, BAM.

I wonder what airport security would be like after something like that... They'd ask everyone to produce their kidneys (but not their tonsils, since that hasn't happened yet).

[Tootsie Pop]

Heh... my beef is with contact lens solution and the like. How about this? Right in front of the security guy, I put some drops in my eyes. No sane person would put explosive liquid drops in their eyes, right? or how about... as you take your beverage through security, you must take a big swallow of it. who swallows explosives? come on people, let's get creative!


Oh.. they have been doing that for years. Drinking from a bottle before taking it on board has been common practice. But for reasons that others stated, that wont quite be good enough anymore.

No more sneaking Vodka on a flight in a Poland Spring bottle. hahaha.